Thing I suppose I don't get is this. It was stated that PSD and V10 is like apples to oranges. This is true, and likewise, is like selling oranges to someone who only eats apples or selling apples to someone who is allergic to oranges. You all I am sure know that I am a fan of the diesel Powerstroke, but the V10 is also a worthy engine. Even the smaller Triton has it's place in the Super Duty. Ford made them for a reason, and what is best for one person is not necessarily best for someone else, otherwise all would be PSD's or all would be V10's or V8's. This thread has to be taken with a grain of sand, as it really holds no valid purpose. There will never be a "king" of the Super Dutys, as both V10 and PSD's have a place in the Super Duty. That is one of the things that makes this truck so great. Many different needs require many different options.

 

I'm not entering this war just presenting the links and the facts of what we did. Draw your own conclusions.

Both truck with 3.73 and same era trucks (mine is a 2000 and I think the 7.3 was a 2001). I have newer 33" tires and the 7.3 had older 35" tires. I had 800lbs+ of extra weight to make up for the difference in configuration (CC vs SB).

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ith-video.html

 

The 6.4 came with 3.55s or 3.73s. The 3V V10 came with 4.10s or 4.30s.
You can not compare two stock light trucks with the same gears!

You need to do it with F450s with 4.88s in both to do that.
4.88s in both will help the V10 beat the PSD by even more.
Whats wrong with putting the 99-03 PSD and either the 99 or the 00-04 V10 in a pull off?

You might be closer to the speed limit, but thats just becuase the V10 is over it.

 

Don't know where you are getting your info from but you can get gears up to a 4.88 from ford with the 6.4

 

Well I meet Tom personally several times and can say that he is a good person with a real passion for the technical aspect of automotive industry. Not sure why someone whom finds merits in both engines bothers you. I can tell you that we loves his truck and the 6.4. I can tell you I like his 6.4. I was the one driving it in the most recent video's we took and grinned the whole time. If my needs were different and (mainly) my wallet bigger I would love to have a 6.4.
At the end of the day I bought my old V10 at a good price and it's towed, hauled and run every time I asked it to. When the old girl finishes it slow death to rust I'll look for another V10 powered truck. Why? because my needs will be the same and, baring winning the lottery, my wallet will too.

 

I know. I was talking about the SRW trucks and you read it before i was done making it say what I wanted.

 

OK, let's go over this AGAIN. The 6.4 puts out 350 HP. The years the 6.4 was produced, the V10 put out 362.

If it's all about HP, how about letting the V10 be geared to where it can take advantage of it's higher HP?

As I said before, repeatedly, take two different electric motors. One puts out 1HP at 3600RPM, one puts out 1HP at 1800RPM. You HAVE to gear the first at a 2:1 to get the same torque, even though they are both rated at 1HP.

The same goes for the V10 vs. the PSD. You either HAVE to gear the V10 different to make it apples-to-apples, or stick to "it has to be the same gearing" and purposely hobble the V10 just to make the PSD superior.

That's the basis of much of the argument here.

Either you put both engines on a level playing field (allowed to reach their peak HP at near the same road speeds), or purposely hobble the V10.

Now, again, when was the last time YOU drove a V10 with a trailer behind it?

 

Thanks Monster!!!

I do think it is funny Bill's impression. I sometimes think he is not living in the same world we are. Okay, I think that most of the time.

Here is a quote from the first post "Mike's V10 truck would have done better had it been able to rev above 3,000 RPMs. He's trying to track down the cause for that but his truck isn't going to realize it's full potential until it revs higher than that. This is why we think it didn't pull faster than the 7.3L truck."

Okay, to me, reading that and other parts, says, neither truck was functioning properly (in that the 7.3 should not have caught on fire), but the 7.3 made it up quicker than the v10. I didn't rewatch the videos though, just reading that.

Here is Bill a few minutes later "That 7.3 was slower than I thought it would be, and I think everybody can agree that the 2V V10 towed the same load better."

How does a truck stuck at 3,000 rpms tow a load better?

If I recall, both trucks were fixed later? Why not do another run?

 

Actually the 7.3 was the slowest. To the first corner my V10 and the 7.3 were neck and neck. Once the hill went from about 15% to flat to about 10% my V10 pulled ahead as far as speed. The V10 hit about 40-45 MPH in places but the 7.3 could not get above 35 MPH. Whether the 7.3 was running right or not I can only go by the owner's words of "yes it's running fine". The smoke might have been from the turbo boot but the boost gauge read fine the entire time. The only issue was the EGT was not accurate do to the poor location of the gauge probe in the exhaust manifold.

The 3000 RPM issue was actual designed from Ford in the PCM so this was "working as intended". It only limited the engine from the start until the hill leveled out a bit and then the RPMs came up to redline. After that it was not an issue. (EDIT: Go to about 1:15 in the first video)
It was locking the TC at 3000 RPM due to the time at WOT and acceleration speed. The TC locking killed the V10's acceleration rate. Mike from 5 Star already confirmed this in the base programing. He gave be a tune to compensate for this but I never got a chance to test it yet.

 

the only way they would have settled it would have been if they'd timed the runs...not using the length of the videos...It's clear to me the 6.4 "won" hands-down when you hear things like "gotta' slow down for this turn" when you didn't hear anything like that in the other trucks. The 6.4 HELD 40+ mph on the second part of the hill, but you can clearly hear the V10 go 40....35...and downshift.

Diesel, FTW!!

 

Did you even bother to research any of those facts, or even look at the article at all?

"1. Only a diesel vehicle can tow, be a work truck, drag race, sled pull, off-road race, and still be a reliable daily driver."
There are many people with gas powered rigs that do exactly that, and are still plenty reliable

"3. A diesel releases less carbon dioxide into the air because it is more fuel efficient."
23. A diesel only compresses air, so carbon monoxide and unburned hydrocarbons do not form in the crevices of the cylinder wall like in a gasoline engine.
36. Gasoline engines produce deadly concentrations of carbon monoxide. By contrast, diesels produce little carbon monoxide.
And Diesels emit tons more oxides of nitrogen - you know the stuff that makes acid rain, they emit much more particulates as well. Plus, was it really needed to restate the same point about 3 times?

"5. The Army uses diesel fuel. 6. The Navy uses diesel fuel.
7. The Marines use diesel fuel.
8. The trucking industry uses diesel fuel.
9. The aviation industry uses diesel fuel.
10. The mining industry uses diesel fuel.
11. The railroad industry uses diesel fuel.
12. The maritime shipping industry uses diesel fuel.
13. The U.S. Coast Guard uses diesel fuel.
14. The construction industry uses diesel fuel."
That is one reason, not 10, besides the shipping industry uses something more akin to road tar, then diesel fuel in their engines. How is the fact that quite a lot of people use diesel an advantage anyways.

"15. Diesel engines are like garbage disposals-they'll eat any type of oil-based fuel."
Gasoline engines will burn just about anything to: Methanol, Ethanol, Gasoline, Propane, CNG, white gas, paint thinner, ether, hydrogen. Hell if you heat up and finely atomize/vaporize diesel fuel, a gasoline engine will burn that too!

17. After a few decades, someone will pay you for your junk diesel engine.
For a wet sleeve engine maybe. They wouldn't pay anymore for a junk parent bore throw-away diesel (like the 5.9 Cummins and the PowerStroke) then a junk gasoline engine.

19. Diesel vehicles do not need complicated evaporation emission control systems.
Complicated? One charcoal canister and a vacuum solenoid. Oh how complicated. How about the ridiculous DPF and SCR systems diesels now have?

22. A diesel only compresses air in its cylinders, so fuel does not contaminate the oil like in a gasoline engine.
Why don't you go ask quite a few of the 6.4 PSD and 6.7 Cummins guys that - In which every time they checked their engine oil it higher then last time!

25. A diesel produces maximum torque at low engine speed. This makes it perfect for getting heavy loads moving.
A turbo gasoline engine can do the same. Even modern N/A Gasoline engines can do that.

26. A diesel is more reliable because it does not have to deal with a spark ignition system.
Yup, only a very fragile injection pump - or a very fragile and complicated high pressure common rail injection system! Or better yet, how about the PSDs with the even more complicated HEUI system?

30. The largest and most powerful internal combustion engine in the world is a diesel (Wartsilla-Sulzer RTAA96-C).
Its compression ignition, but it burns bunker fuel. Not diesel.

33. A mechanically injected diesel does not need electricity to keep it going. If your alternator fails, a diesel engine will get you home.
And what modern diesel is mechanically injected? Oh, that's right. A single battery would keep an old carb'd vehicle going for many hours - it would even keep a fuel injected car going for a long time as well.

34. It is easier to turbocharge a diesel engine.
35. It is easier to supercharge a diesel engine.
That is debatable (and should be one point), especially on modern gasoline engines with mass air flow sensors.

37. Diesel fuel is a lubricant. Gasoline is a solvent. What would you rather spray on your cylinder walls?
They will both wash the oil off your cylinder walls - moot point really.

42. Diesel dominated at the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
So a high performance experimental diesel racecar (in which one team had multiple catastrophic engine failures in a single race) is an advantage? That doesn't even make sense. How about all the gasoline powered cars in F1 racing, or NASCAR, or just about every other motorsport?

43. If you're driving up a steep hill or carrying a heavy load, a diesel engine is less likely to stall.
If its an automatic neither are likely to stall at all, and with somebody who actually knows how to drive stick and utilize the low 1st gear that a transmission behind either engine would have, stalling is unlikely for either of them.

44. Since diesels are built to withstand high compression, they are built with stronger pieces, which makes them last longer.
And their internals are under a lot more stress.

46. With no ignition system, the mechanical diesel engine will not interfere with radios, communication devices, or pacemakers.
And modern gasoline engines with shielded COP units don't have any interference problems either.

47. Diesels are better in remote areas and third world countries because they can run on vegetable oil and are less complicated than other drivetrains.
Perhaps, but gasoline engines will run on alcohol - which is easy to make even in remote places.

48. Since a diesel is more efficient, it generates less noise and waste heat.
Less noise, really now? Really? How this guy even write this article with a straight face?

49. Diesel fuel and exhaust just smells better.
If you enjoy the smell of sulfur and rotting eggs.

 

the '08 6.4 could get a 4.10, the '09-'10 6.4 only came with 3.73 or 3.55 in SRW form. The SRW was never offered with a 4.88, I know you are referring to the DRW F450-550, but most of us have been talking exclusively about the SRW.

 

Until you realize that it's a 2-VALVE V10 with a 4R100, and that the 6.4 w/Torqshift was not available when the 2-valve was being produced.

If you re-did the test with the 3-valve and the Torqshift tranny, both combinations available at the same time the 6.4 was produced, it wouldn't be so "hands down".

And, downshifting is not a problem if you have the RPM range to deal with it. Again, the V10 needs to rev to meet it's HP rating, whether it's the 310HP of the 2-valve, or the 362HP of the 3-valve.

Admit it. If you don't, you're not being realistic.

 

The 6.4 "winning" was in no way in doubt. It had plenty of power to spare and I was certainly impressed with the power delivery but then being 8 years newer and 1 gear bigger I would hope so.

The 6.0 was also very impressive. I would own either engine just based upon these tests. The only engine I was not impressed with was the 7.3. And yes I can take into account that is might not have been running right and was lightly modified but my V10 was just as old (but I did have a lot less miles) and it held up to four back-to-back runs without so much as a whimper.

I was proud of my old V10. It didn't "outpulled" the 6.0 or 6.4 but it was doing a good job keeping up with them considering the older technology it had (2V and 4R100). It would have been fun to see a 3V and Torqshift V10 pull the same hill.

 

Do you want me to honestly go through your posts and quote all of it? I don't have time to today, but it's in the posts. You said all of those except the scrap metal part.

It's not being sensitive, it's the simple fact that everytime you quote or referrer to me it's disrespectiveful.

Besides, I thought you said you were just having fun?