With a strike upon us ....
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 1,123
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 1,123
Hi again guys,
Thank you very much for your patience through this thread's short cooling off period.
When David Demmith, Ford's Vehicle Integration Supervisor for the Ford Super Duty program, presented (one year ago this week) the all new 2023 model that he had worked on for five years (since 2018), he often introduced new features and changes as solutions to overcome customer reported "pain points."
I often think of the term "pain points" when reviewing a thread. What are the distracting pain points that derail and deteriorate a discussion to the point where a reader no longer wishes to participate anymore, and clicks away, never to return?
Pervasive personal bickering, not about the topic, but about other members, is a pain point. Pro-actively provoking other participants is a pain point. Having the flow of the topic constantly interrupted by personal tit for tat, spit for spat, is a pain point. A lot of folks don't want to have to wade through all those pain points when looking for more appropriate and informative contributions to the topic.
If the domestic automotive industry stutters to a near halt, we may not have much in the way of new colors, options, tires, batteries, warranties, fuel mileage, Sync, FORScan, or new features to talk about... so the interest in the present strike is both keen and relevant, as the thread traffic data demonstrates.
Several members reached out to me privately while this thread was closed. One member said "Understand, getting into mud slinging and politics. Been a little educational on views. Lets get back to trucks." I would have to agree.
This thread HAS had some unnecessary mudslinging. That needs to stop.
This thread has had some unnecessary politics, which seems somewhat irrelevant, since the Executive branch has no legal authority or influence to dictate the outcome of private automotive manufacturer's contract negotiations with a union. Therefore the notion that just one elected official is the cause or controller of all possible outcomes would seem to not give adequate consideration to competing interests and complexities that turn the tides time and time again, irrespective of whoever is in office. So we might learn more by talking about the business complexities, rather than riffing about the same old guys who have no role in these negotiations.
And this thread HAS been educational on views. Open discussion is the principle benefit of a forum, dating back to Roman Greco times. Sharing points of view is far more enjoyable and useful than shoveling through points of pain.
Speaking as a participant, and not as a moderator, if I share a point of view, I stand up, say my piece, sit down, and most importantly, I then shut the heck up... so that I can learn everyone else's perspective. If I keep talking, arguing to try and brow beat others into agreeing with me, then I lose out on the educational opportunity to understand how others perceive the same issue. I can always access my own opinion. To access the opinions of others, I need something like a forum.
I don't have to agree with other perspectives in order to benefit from reading them. It is wiser to learn how the enemy thinks, if for whatever reason I fall into the trap of believing that anyone who is not in my boat is an enemy. I haven't fallen into that belief (yet), but the fact remains that this is a shared ocean, and I'm not in control of the other boats... which means that to best navigate this ocean, I had best learn where the other boats nearest me are thinking of steering!
We man our own oars in these waters, without need for validation, ratification, or replication by others for our opinions.
State your case. Strongly. And the strength of your argument will linger or languish on its own merits, not by putting down others who disagree.
Discuss. Vigorously. Without destroying the decorum of the forum that enables the discussion to take place.
The wheel is in your hands.
Thread reopened.
Thank you very much for your patience through this thread's short cooling off period.
When David Demmith, Ford's Vehicle Integration Supervisor for the Ford Super Duty program, presented (one year ago this week) the all new 2023 model that he had worked on for five years (since 2018), he often introduced new features and changes as solutions to overcome customer reported "pain points."
I often think of the term "pain points" when reviewing a thread. What are the distracting pain points that derail and deteriorate a discussion to the point where a reader no longer wishes to participate anymore, and clicks away, never to return?
Pervasive personal bickering, not about the topic, but about other members, is a pain point. Pro-actively provoking other participants is a pain point. Having the flow of the topic constantly interrupted by personal tit for tat, spit for spat, is a pain point. A lot of folks don't want to have to wade through all those pain points when looking for more appropriate and informative contributions to the topic.
If the domestic automotive industry stutters to a near halt, we may not have much in the way of new colors, options, tires, batteries, warranties, fuel mileage, Sync, FORScan, or new features to talk about... so the interest in the present strike is both keen and relevant, as the thread traffic data demonstrates.
Several members reached out to me privately while this thread was closed. One member said "Understand, getting into mud slinging and politics. Been a little educational on views. Lets get back to trucks." I would have to agree.
This thread HAS had some unnecessary mudslinging. That needs to stop.
This thread has had some unnecessary politics, which seems somewhat irrelevant, since the Executive branch has no legal authority or influence to dictate the outcome of private automotive manufacturer's contract negotiations with a union. Therefore the notion that just one elected official is the cause or controller of all possible outcomes would seem to not give adequate consideration to competing interests and complexities that turn the tides time and time again, irrespective of whoever is in office. So we might learn more by talking about the business complexities, rather than riffing about the same old guys who have no role in these negotiations.
And this thread HAS been educational on views. Open discussion is the principle benefit of a forum, dating back to Roman Greco times. Sharing points of view is far more enjoyable and useful than shoveling through points of pain.
Speaking as a participant, and not as a moderator, if I share a point of view, I stand up, say my piece, sit down, and most importantly, I then shut the heck up... so that I can learn everyone else's perspective. If I keep talking, arguing to try and brow beat others into agreeing with me, then I lose out on the educational opportunity to understand how others perceive the same issue. I can always access my own opinion. To access the opinions of others, I need something like a forum.
I don't have to agree with other perspectives in order to benefit from reading them. It is wiser to learn how the enemy thinks, if for whatever reason I fall into the trap of believing that anyone who is not in my boat is an enemy. I haven't fallen into that belief (yet), but the fact remains that this is a shared ocean, and I'm not in control of the other boats... which means that to best navigate this ocean, I had best learn where the other boats nearest me are thinking of steering!
We man our own oars in these waters, without need for validation, ratification, or replication by others for our opinions.
State your case. Strongly. And the strength of your argument will linger or languish on its own merits, not by putting down others who disagree.
Discuss. Vigorously. Without destroying the decorum of the forum that enables the discussion to take place.
The wheel is in your hands.
Thread reopened.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,937
Likes: 2,651
From: The Great State of Texas
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 2,329
I guess I can't do that about official endorsements, so you've got a point. Maybe once a thing gets too large, it has a tendency to go a certain way, I don't know. But I do have a short story. I drove to PA to buy a truck in 2015, the sellers were a big company very pro union and not shy about displaying their political preference everywhere at the time. They were not in favor of Joe Biden. I just never forgot that because I had always heard union people voted Democrat.
I am certainly NOT saying unions need to vote for any particular party because in my view, blind party loyalty is what got us to where we are today, but as long as the unions keep endorsing politicians who are playing the long game gutting domestic manufacturing base by
(1) deliberately championing unsustainable compensation and perks that they know will make American manufacturing less competitive and
(2) at the same time rapidly allow millions of "temporary" workers who undercut the wages from below, then
(3) throw their hands up and say "it's the global economy" when new plants owned by american firms open in Mexico, or China, or Turkey, or Thailand, whatever
Then the frog pot keeps getting boiled and the union frogs don't even realize what is going on until the plants shut down. My family's roots are deep in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia and we saw this over, and over, and over again.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 1,123
Yes, about 8 hours, give or take a minute or so.
More Turbo
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 607
Likes: 377
So, at 400 hours a year if you make $50/hr that is $20,000 you haven't earned. How about you give me 1/5th of your pay every year even though I didn't earn it. Seems fair to me.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 1,123
I am in the emergency response arena. Most of our people we'll either drive or fly across the country, they live in various parts of the country. Often working 7 12's or whatever ever. Not uncommon to work 3500 hours a year.
Our warehouse is based out of Kansas. So when that are home, waiting to be dispatched, we pay 32 hours. So let's say they traveled over a weekend, those hours are not counted towards the 32.
More Turbo
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 607
Likes: 377
We're taking this a little bit out of context.
I am in the emergency response arena. Most of our people we'll either drive or fly across the country, they live in various parts of the country. Often working 7 12's or whatever ever. Not uncommon to work 3500 hours a year.
Our warehouse is based out of Kansas. So when that are home, waiting to be dispatched, we pay 32 hours. So let's say they traveled over a weekend, those hours are not counted towards the 32.
I am in the emergency response arena. Most of our people we'll either drive or fly across the country, they live in various parts of the country. Often working 7 12's or whatever ever. Not uncommon to work 3500 hours a year.
Our warehouse is based out of Kansas. So when that are home, waiting to be dispatched, we pay 32 hours. So let's say they traveled over a weekend, those hours are not counted towards the 32.
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Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 1,123
Now the Ford proposal, I don't see that happening, pipe dream. You always ask for something you don't expect in order to get something.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 109
Likes: 64
From: Sometimes Maine
I was reading a bit about how Fain came to be president of UAW. I like him. He's shaking things up, fighting the status quo. He hated the concessions made in '07 to '09 and they should never have been made. So far, Ford has agreed to getting rid of the two tier pay system and agreed to most of the pay raise. I don't think pensions or 32 hour week will be agreed to. Not many companies offer pensions any more. Those were probably added as sacrificial bargaining chips.
Ford agreement
Ford agreement
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 4,004
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A close family member of mine recently had to join one when his department got caught up in a union drive, else he is ostracized and faces reprisal from his co-workers, it was made not subtly to him when he asked if joining was mandatory.
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 452
Likes: 200
From: FLORIDA
I was reading a bit about how Fain came to be president of UAW. I like him. He's shaking things up, fighting the status quo. He hated the concessions made in '07 to '09 and they should never have been made. So far, Ford has agreed to getting rid of the two tier pay system and agreed to most of the pay raise. I don't think pensions or 32 hour week will be agreed to. Not many companies offer pensions any more. Those were probably added as sacrificial bargaining chips.
Ford agreement
Ford agreement