Your question is impossible to answer because of all the benefits involved. Benefits affect hourly wages directly

 

They should be paid what a non union factory pays their workers where their non unionized workers are grateful for their jobs.

 

Lol, grateful to be wage slaves. That's funny. Not sure why sociopaths think the unwashed masses should be grateful for the crumbs from their tables. Unions are a necessary evil in response to unnecessary greed by sociopaths who build nothing, create nothing, but expect to be compensated for "management".

 

If they really felt like they were wage slaves working for Honda, Toyota etc assembling vehicles in the US, then why do they keep voting down joining UAW?

 

EXACTLY, and for those that have a GOOD WORK ETHIC and actually HAVE worked in a union you know this is correct.
I lasted almost 2 years. But for us we got better wage and crappy insurance, no pension, Union backs the crappy workers and tells the Good ones to just let it go. They threaten strike before negotiations and shoot themselves in the foot by being pigheaded... example. Company used to offer a $100 gift grocery card for Xmas (we already get an automatic week off with pay during Xmas), Company says they can only do $50, union says NO NO NO, we guess what, we got NUTTIN ! Oh and then lay offs...
Don't forget we also paid Union dues around 700-800 a year for, well nuttin'

 

If you see one of this model I built and installed the glass by hand entire model run. If it wasn't me, I was sick that day. Had helper for front and rear, till the company sped up the line and lost helper for the rear. Mind numbing day after day for years. The company figured out 13% of the cost of a tractor was the labor force. 2 tier wages, some old guys still left and were making $42 an hour and us lower tier about $17 at the time. My back has several compressed disks, my shoulders elbows and wrists are shot. It sneaks up gradual and the union was trying to get retirement back every contract and never happened. The pay was ok and the only game around at the time. Not enough to keep the wife from working though for years. So if the workers take the 20% over 4 years and inflation is a 4%, without cola they will get 1%. Just saying

 

How long does this unions raising wages for everyone take? Day 2 for me on my new economic plan and struck out again. Raised my labor rate 46% yesterday & adjusted timelines to shorter work weeks & haven’t sold 1 job?? People look at me like I’m nuts even when I “perceive” they can afford these prices? Seems rude to not fall in line & pay.

 

Along with some of the best quality that the big 3 could only wish for.

 

I don't think its funny at all. These clowns being led by this dictator is slowly pushing their jobs to Mexico and across the pond, but they probably don't care thinking they'll at last the storm.

 

The early 1900's was the heyday for organized labor...Lot of blood was spilt to give the members a safe working environment, portable health care, defined benefit pension, 40hr work week w/overtime pay, vacation & sick leave, to name a few
The problem is that the union cause (private sector) hasn't really done anything since, other than grow into a qausi socialist organization spawned by the public sectors' example.
Whenever you have 2 sides at the negotiating table that are on the same side (collective bargaining), the result is what you see happening now in federal, state and local government negotiations. The kicker is, that in the public domain there is only 1 way to fund their budgets...raise taxes

The unreasonable demands of the UAW is a perfect example of what you get when the unholy mix of big money & power come together (public or private)

 

My two oldest cars that I still own are an 18 year old Corolla, and a 25 year old Camry. Both made in the US by American workers.

To top it off, my Corolla was made in the same building as the Infamous GM Fremont Assembly previously occcupied, with a motor from West Virginia. Those of you who know about the background of the Fremont Assembly would see the irony. That plant would still be open if it wasn't for GM pulling out of the GM-Toyota NUMMI joint venture. The kicker is, I believe NUMMI was UAW but UAW gave up some concessions in how it was run, so it was clear it was a model that worked but was not used else where for GM's benefit.

Americans can absolutely make top tier quality automobiles. I am not saying union is the deciding factor, but how many 25 year old Taurus's are still on the road the way 25 year old Camry's are?

On a more topic more relevant to this strike, for years I was trying to order or locate a 2 door base Bronco ever since Bronco was introduced, but couldn't even though theoretically a base 2 door manual 4 cylinder Bronco would have been a helluva easy one to produce. Now I see the Bronco/Ranger plant is on strike, I am glad I didn't keep waiting, I would hate to be those receiving the Broncos built right before the strike started.

 

I just drove my 99 Taurus to salvage yard with the cruise control working, it ran perfect. Road salt made it unsafe to drive anymore. UAW worker can build great cars if that's what the company tells them to build. We used to use wiring from small town up the road, nope not cheap enough, get it from Mexico, endless problems, used to get belts and hoses from Gates, nope not cheap enough, go to China, was crap and problems. Glass from Ohio was great, nope not cheap enough, we will ship from Finland. Almost as good but massive delays. Still not cheap enough, we will get it from Mexico, absolute crap. Not one of those discissions was made by anyone except salary and management. Don't blame UAW workers for all the fault. Salary took the bonus for saving $1 and moved on. Just reminiscing.

 

Check the trunk trim in your Camry. There's a good chance I had a hand in manufacturing that. Ford, about that time, had the same quality standards as toyota. Not sure what happened in the intervening years.

 

I've been inside every part of that plant during the NUMMI era. It is now a Tesla plant, and was Tesla's first major manufacturing facility.

Prior to the joint venture with Toyota called NUMMI, the Fremont plant was solely a GM plant, producing 70's era Suburbans, among other vehicles, which reveals the following irony:

A UAW worker, who often arrived at work with a hangover, would climb in the back of a Suburban body while it was on the buck going down the manufacturing line, and SLEEP in it until the unit was finished, with all the other UAW workers working around him, covering for him, because no one cared. Their jobs were all protected by the Union, irrespective of their performance. The culture in that plant (prior to NUMMI) was the antithesis of productivity. It was a toxic environment, steeped in substance abuse, riding on an unearned assumption of entitlement, where it didn't matter what anyone did... they couldn't get fired unless they stole something. It didn't matter how well they built anything. The GM products produced there were notorious for how poorly they were put together, and the plant was idled.

When GM's joint venture with Toyota revitalized the plant into NUMMI, Toyota introduced the Toyota Production System. The difference in culture was night and day. The concept of each individual worker having a responsibility for the final product was reinforced by empowering any worker to hit a red button and stop the assembly line when a process was amiss. Team building, job swapping for better understanding of preceding and subsequent manufacturing steps... I won't get into all of the details, but people showed up to WORK, not to sleep.

They actually slept in the parking lot. The jobs at NUMMI were so coveted, people who lived 300 miles away would drive to work in their motorhome, and camp in a designated area of the parking lot during the work week, and then journey home on their weekends.

Some of the most reliable and durable automobiles still on the road today (Tacoma pickups, Corollas, the Pontiac Vibe, now a cult classic) were built there in Fremont California. Interestingly enough, the culture of cooperation and productivity in the Fremont NUMMI plant exceeded that of the other domestic plants of Toyota and GM in the south.

I've been inside quite a few automotive plants. A couple of memorable moments include watching a worker at Kentucky Truck Plant try and install a dashboard in a Super Duty while using his shoulder to pin his cell phone to his ear, arguing with what sounded like his wife or girlfriend. I'd have fired him on the spot, but his job was secure. I watched a worker at a Fleetwood plant strip the outside fastener that holds the wall to the floor, and he literally looked both ways to check if anyone saw him. I was DIRECTLY behind him, and unannounced, so he didn't see me. He then literally shrugged his shoulders, and moved on, leaving that connection undone. I'd have probably fired him too.

And in further irony, that could be exactly why Unions are useful... to keep supervisors from firing people without due process. A chance to retrain. An opportunity to do better. Or continue to do the same.

The culture cultivated at NUMMI was one where ownership of the outcome of the product was vested in the hands of those building the product. Pride of ownership of the outcome. That doesn't mean pride of the car company, nor pride of the Union. It is pride of one's participation in a process to produce a satisfying result.

One has to pay people enough so that they don't have to worry about keeping the lights on at home, while they invest themselves in producing that result.

I remember a long conversation I had with an old man running the security guard shack at GM's Flint Assembly plant. This was after GM declared bankruptcy (which is why GM pulled out of the partnership with Toyota, which is why NUMMI was shut down.) Anyway, back to the backlot of Flint... this man, a great grandfather, with all of his kids, grandkids, and great grand baby living in his home, still had to work, because GM BK'd out of his pension. Gone, as he put it. So there he was, an octogenarian, working security at the plant he spent his career inside of, with nothing to show for it, and a lot of family to still take care of. More irony.

The Ford truck has often been reported to be the best selling pickup in America, and many Americans do have pride in this country, in domestic manufacturing, and in their trucks. We can only hope that as talks resume, all the parties involved can find a way to pull together to bring pride in the process that produces the product.

 

Great post @Y2KW57 , wholeheartedly agreed.