AE class is in session!
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Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Puget Sound
Great question! I removed my OBDII port mounting bolts the first time I used AE. I leave the port behind the knee panel (the one with four big plastic screws you can operate with your thumb). When I hook the interface up, I just leave it back there and string the USB cable in a tidy fasion throught the trailer brake contoller and up to the center fold-down-combination-seat-armrest thingy. I leave it there for days at a time and it hasn't hurt anything yet. Plop carputer on armrest, plug in, power up, connect, set to record, drive. When not in use, I wrap the cord and put it in the cubby left of the cupholder... or unplug and stow in the carputer bag. Looking at the cab, you'd never know I had something plugged into the OBDII port.
For the Infinity, even easier: String the cable to the display and just leave it there. If you park for weeks at a time, it's not a bad idea to unplug the OBDII interface... but secure it there.
For the Infinity, even easier: String the cable to the display and just leave it there. If you park for weeks at a time, it's not a bad idea to unplug the OBDII interface... but secure it there.
New User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2
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From: So AZ
7.3L Powerstroke Starting Req.:
Vehicle Power: 10.5v
RPM Signal : 100rpm
Injector Control Pressure (ICP): 0.85v (about 500psi)
Fuel Injector Pulse Width: 1 to 6 milliseconds
Video - No Start vs. Start
First Start After Sticks and Cups - YouTube
EPM voltage? This is a 7.3L, using Non-OBDII to connect?
I can help you with AE here, but I can't hijack into the other aspects of a no-start... it would be unfair to those who clicked here to learn AE. Like trekbasso mentioned... plenty of help from a dedicated no-start thread and many people willing to assist (including myself). Last link in my signature will help as well.
Vehicle Power: 10.5v
RPM Signal : 100rpm
Injector Control Pressure (ICP): 0.85v (about 500psi)
Fuel Injector Pulse Width: 1 to 6 milliseconds
Video - No Start vs. Start
First Start After Sticks and Cups - YouTube
EPM voltage? This is a 7.3L, using Non-OBDII to connect?
I can help you with AE here, but I can't hijack into the other aspects of a no-start... it would be unfair to those who clicked here to learn AE. Like trekbasso mentioned... plenty of help from a dedicated no-start thread and many people willing to assist (including myself). Last link in my signature will help as well.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
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From: Puget Sound
I will be using akaFrankCastle's data to point a few things out. I have attached the "modified" data that anybody with AE can open up and follow along. Download the file and right-click on it, then select "Rename". Where the file name says DOC, change that part to CSV.
Since this has so much data, it will try to "play" the data out in real time upon loading. It will take a long time to load, so you want to move the "Playback Speed" slider all the way to the right in order to fast-forward. After the whole file has loaded, the graph will display everything that will fit in the time limit of the AE software. This data recording is just short enough to fit this file on one screen. Remember, these pressures are "absolute", so that means they are the atmospheric pressure at your altitude PLUS the pressures built up in the engine at that moment. Here are some notes on the raw data I received:
I cleaned up the error and we have this:
I then made my AE screen bigger to see more detail and zoomed in on the first spike on the graph:
You can see how the backpressure (EPB plus EBP KOEO reading) stretches above the MAP (boost plus the MAP KOEO reading) when we get on our trucks. We lose efficiency in the stock turbo at higher pressures and this is a normal result. Doing the math:
Now I'm watching for somebody to raise their hand for a question.
Since this has so much data, it will try to "play" the data out in real time upon loading. It will take a long time to load, so you want to move the "Playback Speed" slider all the way to the right in order to fast-forward. After the whole file has loaded, the graph will display everything that will fit in the time limit of the AE software. This data recording is just short enough to fit this file on one screen. Remember, these pressures are "absolute", so that means they are the atmospheric pressure at your altitude PLUS the pressures built up in the engine at that moment. Here are some notes on the raw data I received:
I cleaned up the error and we have this:
I then made my AE screen bigger to see more detail and zoomed in on the first spike on the graph:
You can see how the backpressure (EPB plus EBP KOEO reading) stretches above the MAP (boost plus the MAP KOEO reading) when we get on our trucks. We lose efficiency in the stock turbo at higher pressures and this is a normal result. Doing the math:
- EBP (absolute) peak is 38, but we subtract the EBP KOEO of 12 to get the real ehaust backpressure of 26 PSI.
- MAP (absolute) peak is 29, but we subtract the MAP KOEO of (roughly) 12 to get the real MAP (boost) of 17 PSI.
Now I'm watching for somebody to raise their hand for a question.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Kansas City, MO
The "fun" spikes would be stretches of WOT on the interstate. I am lucky enough, for diagnostics and my commute, to be within 2 miles of I-25 so always an opportunity to get on it a bit.
Now, how, if at all, does the EBPV play in to the values that we recorded above? Can we see an indication of a leaky or sticking EBPV? Or am I getting ahead of the class at this point?
Now, how, if at all, does the EBPV play in to the values that we recorded above? Can we see an indication of a leaky or sticking EBPV? Or am I getting ahead of the class at this point?
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
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From: Puget Sound
The RPM data wasn't in the file, but I can estimate.
The thing to note is how the backpressure builds higher as the load increases (wind load, higher gearing, and speed)... this is the breeding ground of high EGTs.
EBPV sticking? I'll look for another example of EBP/MAP data from a stock truck at WOT. I should have some here.
The thing to note is how the backpressure builds higher as the load increases (wind load, higher gearing, and speed)... this is the breeding ground of high EGTs.
EBPV sticking? I'll look for another example of EBP/MAP data from a stock truck at WOT. I should have some here.
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 628
Likes: 10
From: Florence
This is a great thread! I am learning a lot and it makes me wanna just go out and run all my sensors.... Guess I'm nervous about what id find
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,238
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From: North Port, Florida
I mentioned recording data, but we're not ready for that yet: There's a little-known secret in AE that really should be less of a secret: The default maximum for each sensor sucks. Say you want to graph your backpressure after you recorded your data, the most a stock truck will see is maybe 65 PSI absolute – and that's being pushed downhill in second gear by a heavy load. Click on the “Live Data Grid” tab and look at the default maximum for backpressure in the screen shot of below:
40 PSI (heavy load) on a graph from zero to 344.46 (where do they get these numbers?) is going to look like a speed bump, and you want a freeway overpass. Graphing aside, if we saw 300 PSI backpressure, we wouldn't be looking at AE data... we'd be looking at the engine parts on the road that we coasted over. AE is set up with default maximums to fit the most wild factory vehicle. Another example is the engine speed (RPM): The default maximum in AE is 8000. That's just silly for a diesel, so every meter we want needs a visit to the “Live Data Configure” screen.
I set my absolute pressure maximums to 50 for this exercise, but a realistic maximum for my modified truck would be 65 on the backpressure and 55 on the MAP. The question about alarms was asked – that's the trigger in the screen. I'm not covering it yet, but that's another toy for you to experiment with before I get there. If you get playful, you can set a MAP limit on a stock truck to 30 PSI absolute... then it will play an audio file that cries out “Cap'n! I don'-a think she'll take much more!” (which you have to acquire on your own). I digress... here is the screen shot with the maximums set to be reasonable.
We went through all this trouble to select the sensor and set the maximums for good graphing, now we don't want the software to set everything back to default when we disconnect – so we save the session. Click "Vehicle” on the menu, then “Save Session”. Give it a name you can remember – like “Tugly's class” (I have a chance here to be immortalized and I don't want to pass it up). The file name Exh-Boost would probably work better.
The next time you connect to to the vehicle, you can start a new session, or you can load a prepared one like the Exh-Boost you just made. Here are some saved sessions I have on file:
Well... that's it, now we need to start recording and start an engine. Record first, get 10 seconds of data, then start up and go for a drive. If you get a chance to get a WOT session, all the better.
Word of warning: I learned the hard way that if you change a parameter while in record, the recording will stop instantly. Once you are set up and recording, you are committed to that meter set until the next recording session. While recording, you can hit pause at any time and start back up by hitting the pause button. There is a stop button as well, which will complete that recording file. If you hit stop and want to record more, you need to start a new file. If you allow the software to auto-name the recording files, it will just name it for the vehicle, model year, and today's date. If you record twice in one day, it will delete your first recording... unless you give the second recording a different name than the first one.
Obviously, working with filenames and meter parameters is not to be done while driving... though some have tried.
I strongly urge you to leave the computing time to the side of the road, or have an assistant tend to it.
What's next, you say? We're going to look at your data... might I suggest you record some? "Oh my gawd! This has homework!?!"
40 PSI (heavy load) on a graph from zero to 344.46 (where do they get these numbers?) is going to look like a speed bump, and you want a freeway overpass. Graphing aside, if we saw 300 PSI backpressure, we wouldn't be looking at AE data... we'd be looking at the engine parts on the road that we coasted over. AE is set up with default maximums to fit the most wild factory vehicle. Another example is the engine speed (RPM): The default maximum in AE is 8000. That's just silly for a diesel, so every meter we want needs a visit to the “Live Data Configure” screen.
I set my absolute pressure maximums to 50 for this exercise, but a realistic maximum for my modified truck would be 65 on the backpressure and 55 on the MAP. The question about alarms was asked – that's the trigger in the screen. I'm not covering it yet, but that's another toy for you to experiment with before I get there. If you get playful, you can set a MAP limit on a stock truck to 30 PSI absolute... then it will play an audio file that cries out “Cap'n! I don'-a think she'll take much more!” (which you have to acquire on your own). I digress... here is the screen shot with the maximums set to be reasonable.
We went through all this trouble to select the sensor and set the maximums for good graphing, now we don't want the software to set everything back to default when we disconnect – so we save the session. Click "Vehicle” on the menu, then “Save Session”. Give it a name you can remember – like “Tugly's class” (I have a chance here to be immortalized and I don't want to pass it up). The file name Exh-Boost would probably work better.
The next time you connect to to the vehicle, you can start a new session, or you can load a prepared one like the Exh-Boost you just made. Here are some saved sessions I have on file:
Well... that's it, now we need to start recording and start an engine. Record first, get 10 seconds of data, then start up and go for a drive. If you get a chance to get a WOT session, all the better.
Word of warning: I learned the hard way that if you change a parameter while in record, the recording will stop instantly. Once you are set up and recording, you are committed to that meter set until the next recording session. While recording, you can hit pause at any time and start back up by hitting the pause button. There is a stop button as well, which will complete that recording file. If you hit stop and want to record more, you need to start a new file. If you allow the software to auto-name the recording files, it will just name it for the vehicle, model year, and today's date. If you record twice in one day, it will delete your first recording... unless you give the second recording a different name than the first one.
Obviously, working with filenames and meter parameters is not to be done while driving... though some have tried.
I strongly urge you to leave the computing time to the side of the road, or have an assistant tend to it.What's next, you say? We're going to look at your data... might I suggest you record some? "Oh my gawd! This has homework!?!"
I have probably had my AE for 2 years and just about all I have done is clear codes and look at the values wondering what they are supposed to be and thinking I would be alot cooler if I knew. Let alone how to correct them.
This will be priceless.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 2
From: North Port, Florida
Just found the thread today and now need to find time to do the homework soon. My mileage is getting worse.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Now, say you want to see all that data during a WOT test: How long can you keep that WOT while you wait to get all the data? How much information will you collect just on ICP during the first ten seconds?
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Here's an experiment: I have some other data from a truck that isn't faring so well (assuming the data is from a WOT run). I set the MAP and EBP minimum pressure readings to match the pressure for the altitude. This gives me a graph that only shows boosted exhaust and intake pressures. This data has RPM so you can see what your engines do:
When I compare this with the data from before, it's easy to spot the "Ham Sammitch" factor and the "Where's the Beef?" syndrome. Neither set has Bacon/Permagrin, because we're dealing with stock. Note how higher EPB doesn't translate to exactly the same boost rise on the MAP side... that's stock turbo efficiency.
When I compare this with the data from before, it's easy to spot the "Ham Sammitch" factor and the "Where's the Beef?" syndrome. Neither set has Bacon/Permagrin, because we're dealing with stock. Note how higher EPB doesn't translate to exactly the same boost rise on the MAP side... that's stock turbo efficiency.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
So... with a stock truck, it's not unusual to see about 1 PSI difference between exhaust and intake at cruise speed, and about 6-9 PSI difference at WOT. That's about what I saw on Stinky when he had stock hardware with a tuner... but the numbers were taller. I would get about 36 PSI indicated backpressure and... oh... 28 PSI indicated boost at the MAP (30 on the hot side of the intercooler). There are a lot of variables, like altitude, temperature (combined makes air density), condition of the truck, air filter, exhaust configuration, blah-dee-blah-blah....
If you are looking at your truck with a scan tool, expect 1-3 PSI differential between EPB and MAP while driving "sanely". You'll see between 6 - 9 or even 10 PSI differential at high load... like WOT at high speed, pulling a grade, a headwind, or trying to break something at a tractor pull. If your EBPV is on because of a decel tune, expect really big pounds for backpressure readings (upwards of 40 PSI indicated) and bupkis for boost (like 1 or 2 PSI indicated).
If everybody's had enough of the EPB/MAP/BARO already, I'd like to know what you'd like to learn next. No-starts? Anemic performance? How to gauge MPG improvements with AE... instead of waiting for an empty tank? Tire size (ties in with MPG)?
If you are looking at your truck with a scan tool, expect 1-3 PSI differential between EPB and MAP while driving "sanely". You'll see between 6 - 9 or even 10 PSI differential at high load... like WOT at high speed, pulling a grade, a headwind, or trying to break something at a tractor pull. If your EBPV is on because of a decel tune, expect really big pounds for backpressure readings (upwards of 40 PSI indicated) and bupkis for boost (like 1 or 2 PSI indicated).
If everybody's had enough of the EPB/MAP/BARO already, I'd like to know what you'd like to learn next. No-starts? Anemic performance? How to gauge MPG improvements with AE... instead of waiting for an empty tank? Tire size (ties in with MPG)?