Wow!! Just my opinion that I think I know what you will do with, but MAN do you sound like a Ford management plant.

 

Well said.

 

This topic is a repeat of about five other topics about VW's here on FTE....

 

...but Bosch CP4...series pump comparisons are quite valid. I have first hand visual inspection experience that verifies that the internal pieces of the VW CP4.1 single piston HPFP are identical to the internal pieces of the Ford CP4.2 two piston pump. Comparing pictures of the VW CP4.1 failures to the the parts I have in hand of my Ford CP4.2 failure is like looking at the VW parts in a mirror.

Relevant...absolutely...and I expect the NHTSA will agree

Peace

 

And the reason why is.... because they aren't Ford or VW parts, they are Bosch Parts!

Duh!

If Ford management really believes it's the owners fault that these pumps fail, they need a complete overhaul/rebuild / replacment too. No wonder they can't afford to pay dividends on their common stock the past 5 1/2 years. Not something I would invest in, or buy products from, it's a sign of a poorly managed and run US company.

Ford is under the microscope with NHTSA right now. Time will tell if a recall is forced on Bosch and everyone else that uses their CP4 series pump here in the USA. "Suitability of use" on US ASTM D975 grade fuel is the issue, it never met Bosch's specifications for fuel needs on this pump. 400 micron fuel preferred, 460 micron "acceptable" for 2000 hours of usage and wear, 520 micron fuel unacceptable. Care to guess what the ASTM D975 spec is here in the USA?

 

Do tell! Inquiring minds want to know!

 

Hi guys. I’m a Dodge Ram owner who has been watching the 6.7 forums with interest. It is my hope that Ford has solid diesel engine to offer in the 6.7. I have no axe to grind, but perhaps I can provide some fresh perspective as a Dodge guy who went through something similar with my 2003.

This was the first year that Dodge used the common rail injection system on the Ram. On the Dodge forums there was much speculation of how fuel contaminants would affect this high-pressure system. It was also evident on the forums that the filter mounted lift pumps installed on these trucks were failing prematurely. At that time there were no real aftermarket filter upgrades available for common rail.

I purchased my truck used with 14k miles with plans to keep it forever. I decided to fabricate my own lift pump and filter system in order to avoid future fuel related problems as well as potential lift pump issues while on long trips. As part of this system I purchased an aftermarket fuel filter head capable of mounting the CAT 1R-0750 2-micron fuel filters. These CAT filters are used on large diesel trucks and heavy equipment and are available online for under $15 each. I mounted this filter system under my truck on the frame and ran new fuel line from the tank up to the OEM filter on the engine.

I don’t drive my truck very often as it is more for weekend use and long summer trips. I installed this filter system 7 years ago at 25k miles. My truck now has 65k miles and I have not had any fuel related problems since the install. I do carry extra filters with me as well as an extra aftermarket lift pump. My point in posting this is that it is not difficult or expensive to install extra filtration on your trucks as a precaution against fuel system problems. I also have run a custom mix of fuel additives since buying the truck and have been very happy with the results.

Hope this helps.

 

Rick,
On your parts are the piston drive rollers beveled like the VW examples? That would verify that the piston rotated. The side loading would overpower the film strength of the fuel and the piston and bore will be metal to metal. Every stroke starts shaving the body walls and the cam and roller will be losing material from the friction of working out of alignment. All the metal floating around is the icing on the death cake and just speeds the process as well as contaminating the the downstream components.

An interesting point that has not been discussed to me is that Bosch is talking about a 2000 hr life on Euro/ Canadian fuel if I recall. 2000 hours at 65 is only 130,000 mile life for the pump under ideal conditions.

 

The average mph is closer to 35 or 40 mph x 2000 = 70 to 80,000 miles MTBF. If you idle your truck a lot, city traffic, not on the interstate much the miles traveled, based on 2,000 hours, is much, much less.

Want to know for sure? Buy a simple scangauge II and check every fillup, it will track the data for you, by tank. Or install a Hobbs meter on your motor.

 

Or it's already built-in to the instrument panel, since at least the 2008 models.

 

I know the average is lower but I was trying to not seem like a zealot hater of the truck. My 2011 has hr meter in display just divide the odometer by hrs for avg. MPH.

 

[quote=NinerBikes;11325987]And the reason why is.... because they aren't Ford or VW parts, they are Bosch Parts!

Duh!

If Ford management really believes it's the owners fault that these pumps fail, they need a complete overhaul/rebuild / replacment too. No wonder they can't afford to pay dividends on their common stock the past 5 1/2 years. Not something I would invest in, or buy products from, it's a sign of a poorly managed and run US company.


Maybe you should have been a General Motors bond holder a few years ago, then you would really have something to bitch about.

 

Ya know, I've looked all over this report and I cant see fords high pressure pump listed anywhere. Could you highlight it for me. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/downloa...22011-1234.pdf

 

Wow, interesting that someone that works at Ford even reads my posts.

Just so you know, you have to go in through the back door... it's a peer review sample by NHTSA, and due to the timeline of HPFP's and german car companies being the ones to break the news to the rest of the world how their cars with Bosch CF4.2 and CF4.1 HPFP's that are failing on US ASTM D975 fuel (Google the spec on it some time for lubricity) in early 2009, long before Ford started selling truck with these same pumps, they got to be the Guinea Pigs, or beta testers, if you like. The Vw folks with tdi's were smart enough to use the internet, find a Bulletin board, start comparing notes and file complaints with NHTSA that it got on the agency's radar...

So, what you want to do is look up this...

NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation - TDIClub Forums

And as stated in the first sentence, it covers a WIDE SCOPE of vehicles.

on this page is a post by Plus 3 Golfer with a very valuable link.

TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

and the link is this:

Defect Investigations Documents | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

and the particular documents we want to look at are these, one for Ford, one for VW, which will eventually happen to Ford also.

INPR-EA11003-48542.pdf for VW, when you drag your feet about the investigation,

and this, for Ford when it's only a preliminary investigation.

INPR-EA11003-48550.pdf

I point out the VW examples, because VW has 2+ more years of history of Bosch CP 4.x family HPFP failures than Ford, starting with their 2009 models, which the VW Touareg, and Audi Q7 sharing the same 2 rail model as the Ford 6.7.


You can always go to their main page and enter EA 11003 which stands for Engineering Analysis, 2011 number 3.

 

Let's rephrase that correctly... it's Bosch's pump... you (Ford) subcontracted to them for a Diesel fuel injection system for your 6.7 motor... It has never been VW's, GMC's, or Ford's or Audi's High Pressure Fuel Pump.

NHTSA smells something bigger than just Ford, hence the Peer Review analysis. Everybody that makes diesel is getting the same treatment. Almost all mfg's listed there run on Bosch pump models, in one form, family model, or another. NHTSA is going to see which Family of pumps have the highest failure ratio. This is only the beginning of the discovery process, IMHO.