Sorry Tom I just had to...

Kool-Aid Commercial - YouTube

 

I am starting to think that a 3rd party extended warrantee may be better than a Ford one. I bought bumper to bumper 5/100 coverage from the dealer on my '08 and again on my new '11. The downside: I have to get my truck repaired at the selling dealer, or get the dealer to ok repair at a different facility if I was far away with a problem. The upside: the warrantee company has paid for everything I've ever needed repaired durring the warrantee term, including worn ball joints, which I had done on my '08 shortly before I traded it in.*

The other upside is, if the dealer tells them it should be covered under their warrantee, then it gets covered. No FSE comes to inspect it. It's just a phone call and an approval. There's a list of what components are covered, - its cut and dry. No stipulations about fuel contamination. I bought the "platinum coverage" which covers virtually everything besides maintenance items, and brake pads, or something like the backing plates on the rear brakes that were very corroded on my '08.*

Not sure if my luck would continue to hold up if I had a HPFP failure- but in this instance I hope it would. It has seemed so far to me, that my dealer is happy to pick up the phone and tell the 3rd party, that "this should be covered", the dealer doesn't really have to "prove" why, or justify anything. It's almost as good as having "repair insurance".*

If it ever happens- ill be sure to post what happens, as far as coverage or denial. *My god I hope it doesn't, because I'd never be able to afford the repair (unless they financed it for me)

The warrantee I bought on my '08 cost me around $2400. It paid for itself by a factor of 2.5 durring the 3 years I owned my '08. I happily bought the same coverage, from the same 3rd party when I bought my '11. The dealer even sold it to me at the same price I paid for the '08 even though the "retail price" had gone up, because I was a repeat customer. I have no doubt that my dealer gets a nice commission for the sale of the warrantee, because they would rather sell me the 3rd party coverage than a ford warrantee. Probably because, on top of the fact they make money on the sale; they also have less headaches when submitting a repair for coverage than if they were to submit it to FoMoCo, and they keep their customer happy. Win / win IMO.*

Just my two cents.
Chris

 

A WIF fuel light showed up after the November incident and I drained the WF seperator several times and as soon as possible I changed the filters at a non-dealer shop. I brought the truck to the dealer I bought it from shortly after that and they re-set the engine warning light that came back on about ten miles down the road. I called the service manager and he said they have been having issues with the engine light coming on and off and next time the truck was in for service they would take a look at it, it didn't make it that far. In November I replaced my 10,000 gallon above ground tank with a 15,000 gallon tank and I beleive I was one of the last to pull fuel out of the tank. My fuel supplier checks each load for water and the tank after each serious storm. My fueling station has double filters that plug themselves at the first sign of water, shutting down the system. The truck ewas in for a fuel contamination situation and the dealer gave it a clean bill of health, that is the part that is driving me nuts. I had the dealer box up all my parts and I am having the truck towed to a private shop that specializes in diesel equipment. There is an aftermarket filter setup available and I will be installing it. The independent shop was half the price of the dealer. I had no intention of giving the dealer any more of my money because I feel they didn't do their job and now I have to pay for it. This is going to end up in a recall situation for Ford or in a class action lawsuit.

 

Like others have said...the filters will not catch the water if it has been emulsified...maybe you got the bad fuel somewhere else?

 

Different model pump... the cast iron Bosch CP 3.3 family of HPFP. Pretty bomber pump, used also on MBZ and BMW CR diesels.

Ford uses the cheap, aluminum bodied with steel pistoned Bosch CP4.2 series in 6.7. NHTSA is investigating this pump for engineering defect of design currently.


Do a search on Google for "VW Common Rail TDI HPFP Failure", it's the exact same family of HPFP's, the CP 4.x series /family of HPFP's.

To the OP, please file a complaint with NHTSA online stating your situation.


Some reading, no one is being spared, peer review going on. Ford has some explaining to do... without folks filing NHTSA complaints, it's hard to audit Ford accurately, so get those complaints in if you want something done to resolve this manufacturing design defect.

Look up the complaint to Ford, and the documents requested, it is eye opening... NHTSA is playing hardball here.

Defect Investigations Documents | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

Want to call and file a complaint directly?

Jeff Quandt 202 366-5207.

 

Will do on Monday. Thanks for the info.

 

Some patterns of failure I've noted in the Bosch CP 4.x family of pumps...

California, Texas and Florida have shown the most number of reported failures on TDIclub.com

There seems to be a lot more failures showing up from July through November, seems like every year, around that time, the number that show up jumps two to three fold over the other months. Severe shortages of fuel tanks, injectors and pumps start occuring, along with huge delays spanning a month or more with the owners vehicle down, due to parts on back order, being pulled off of cars in the production line.

Cars that have run additive for lubricity, be it biodiesel at 1 to 2% or Optilube XPD, observed the best in the Spicer lubricity tests were not immune to pump failure either.

No predictability on the mileage and failures.... though lots died between 15000 and 45,000 miles, within a 2 or 3 year age of the vehicle. Some died within 600 miles, within 1700 miles, some have had everything replaced in the whole fuel system, new HPFP and died again within 2,000 miles. That's right, double failures.
There have been high mileage failures showing up also... I saw a guy from Ft Worth with 87k miles on his get it replaced, no charge under warranty by VW, August 2011 on his 2010 Vw, his wife was an attorney, another guy in Ontario, CA with 107k miles had his fail in November 2011, and he got an $8000 repair bill.
Keep in mind, this is the same family of pump, Bosch CP4.X series, same principle, one piston on the pump feeds one rail to 4 cylinders, many common parts. Cam's and diameter of plungers would be minor differences between them.

It's my opinion, it's not the fuel that is the problem, it's a defective design in the Bosch pump, several of them. There is no mechanism to keep the roller inside the bottom of the piston aligned with the cam, it is free to rotate, along with the piston, inside the bore of the pumps, in the CP 4.2, there is double the amount, with 2 bores, 2 pistons, and 2 cam roller followers, on one camshaft, double the load of that on a CR TDI. Running a steel piston in an aluminum bore is retarded, just look at the Cheve Vega motor when they ran aluminum bores, with aluminum pistons. Good engineering makes the piston the sacrificial, softer material, not the bore, out of aluminum.


Diesel fuel is industrial grade fuel and Ford Trucks are industrial grade trucks, or they used to be. It's complete nonsense to put a HPFP "that is extremely sensitive to water in the fuel" in an industrial grade truck. Ford needs to fire Bosch for this, or hang it on themselves for not doing enough testing with real world grade diesel fuel here in North America, which, being hygroscopic, gets moisture in the fuel. There are tons of older diesels out there, with Bosch pumps, not the CP 4.2, that run on diesel fuel, the same stuff these trucks with failures are having, and their pumps don't even hiccup if some water is in the fuel or the fuel filter.

 

The answer to that is yes... the Bosch CP 4. series of pumps have failed running treated fuel, even from day 1, brand new.

 

Ask to save all parts, including the HPFP, and all 8 injectors and the fuel rail. Put it in your own writing, not verbal, on the work order, initial and date it, BEFORE signing work authorization.

 

Wow, I have to admit that would frustrate me too. I wonder if your bad fuel service was recorded in OASIS. If so you never stood a chance of that getting covered under warranty.

I'm thinking that if your WIF light came on you had some water that was caught by the water separator, but if it made it past the filters on your tank there was likely some that made it past the filter on your truck. Have you tried filing a claim with your fuel supplier? That water had to have come from somewhere, and that was either condensation within your tank or from their fuel trucks. I'm thinking that condensation in your tank without an emulsifier would have ended up in your filters on the tank.

 

Go to the chevy/duramax LML forum and do a search on fuel pumps. The LML duramax does not use the Bosch 3.3 pump, it's used on the LMM motor. The LML uses the same pump (Bosch cp4.2) as the Ford 6.7

 

Thanks for that correction. How many HPFP failures on the 3.3 LML motors, versus the CP 4.2 LMM motors? It's pretty early in the life of the LMM motors now, first year on the road?

 

I think the answer would come from members of the Duramax forum.

 

I did some searching on the duramax forum and came up with a thread titled "fuel pump failure" the thread starter named (3duramax) reported on 10-05-2010 that he was having serious problems starting the engine. On 10-16-2010 he reported again that the dealer replaced the HPFP and GM wanted the bad pump ASAP due to 3 other pumps failing since his was reported. So it appears these pump failures go beyond the Ford 6.7 engine, the difference might be how the warranty claim is handled.

 

...might be??????

Peace