This is true, but Ford needs to take care of their customers and go after Bosch. They chose the pump now they need to stand behind it.

 

You guys are funny.....

There is not a proven problem, a mass widespread problem.

It's too iffy to make a decision. Facts are facts.

Get off the soap boxes, please.

Shane

 

Kind of like how they went after Navistar? We saw how well that worked out. Ain't gonna happen, so you have to avoid the problem like The Plague.

 

I was hoping that Ford might have taken something good away from the International fiasco, maybe not.

 

Facts are that it's gone to Design Defect Engineering at NHTSA and is under intense scrutiny by them currently, for a potential safety recall
.
It (the Bosch pump) also has been dissected to pieces by VW enthusiasts that are Mechanical Engineers by trade, even lowly diesel mechanics that specialize in diesel injection systems, and deemed by them design flaws and defective.

It's been pointed out by Delphi/Vw that the Bosch design is failure prone, Delphi designed a pump with a square bore in their DFP6, with a square shoe to house the cam follower/roller, and solve the roller alignment problem associated with a round bore that Bosch chose, and then Delphi patented the design, so Bosch no longer has that simple design option that keeps things in proper alignment, without paying royalties.

Fatal pump damage comes up from lateral rotation in the bore.

Delphi's Multec® Diesel common Rail System Helps New Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion Achieve Record Low CO2 Emissions and Fuel consumption

Them's the facts... I am certain Delphi could adapt and engineer the design to run 2 cylinders instead of 1, one for each bank of 4 cylinders and the fuel rail that feeds them.

The worst feature about the Bosch cp 4.x series pump is that it rotates at crank speed, with one crappy roller. All their other systems rotated at half crank speed, had 4 rollers on a merry go round type of cam, and were running steel on steel for fuel pump ring and vanes, as well as bore and plunger, rollers, and cam, on the VE system pumps. Pre common rail and lower fuel pressure too.

 

Really? Again?

Not a panic problem YOU are making out to be.


GMAFB.

I have to keep running behind you putting out these stupid fires!

Prove you accusations or leave the subject alone.

Shane

 

Niner Bikes is right on with his assumption that a huge factor in all this is a Steel piston in an Aluminum bore, it's impossible for that combination to deal with anything but ideal lubrication. Bleeding air after a filter change will set the failure ball in motion if not done by cycling the key using the low pressure pump in the DFCM. Why is there not a steel body for this unit being tested at Bosch and FOMOCO? I suppose there could be but I doubt it. I see no option but to do a precautionary pump change after a WIF incident. The pump is the source of all the chips causing the downstream damage. 2-3000 is better than 12000.

I like my truck a lot but this is a black eye on this powertrain. Ford chose a fuel system not designed for the market they were selling the vehicle in. Spending years working with OEM aircraft manufacturer's on warranty claims I smell that Bosch told Ford about the lubricity issue and Ford rolled the dice to avoid either a delay to certify or cost difference if they asked Bosch to deliver a stronger unit. Hence Ford having to go it alone eating these claims and pushing the Insurance route down our throats. Its too bad since Ford and this product is large enough sales for Bosch to have made anything they wanted. This will get cured just not on our trucks on Fords nickel for us.

Ford if your listening if you can really fix this and price it fairly I would do it on my own nickel just so I don't have to worry out on the road with the 5th wheel stuck on the back.

Cummins uses a different series all steel version that is a different pump.

If this does blow up into a disaster I am really good pals with the lawyer who beat Wal-Mart for 172 million over lunch breaks and unpaid OT here in CA. He got paid 52 million in fees for his time as well.

Peace and good diesel be with you!

 

Right now, with FOMOCO management, ignorance is bliss... but if or when a few folks get killed in these 6.7 scorpion diesel motored vehicles, due to the motor dying with no warning, loss of control, no power steering, no brakes, all bets are off. Hopefully, before that, folks will experience failures, lose confidence and feeling safe in their vehicles, and family's safety in said vehicle, and file complaints with NHTSA, so that the squeaky wheel gets enough grease to effect some design changes.

 

Niner, now would this not have happened in almost 2 years of hundreds and thousands of trucks on the road by now?

Shane

 

5 failed pumps or 5000, they should be covered under warranty if the customer followed maintenance procedures. That's been my point the whole time.

It does make me a little uneasy that Volkswagon uses a very similar pump with a long record of failures.

 

If you go to this link here,

Defect Investigations Documents | Safercar.gov | NHTSA



and pull up this PDF

INRD-EA11003-45604P.pdf VW 4-20-2011, EXHIBIT TO REQUEST 4, REQUEST NUMBER FOUR DATA 1467

You can read about some of the 168 failures reported to NHTSA that they decided to investigate. Keep in mind, this was the first go round, about 2.5 years after the 2009's first came out, and only a request for the failures that were reported to NHSTA that were asked about, not the whole ball of wax, which is being requested now, as well as peer review of other diesel vehicle brands as of 10/07/11 for fuel pump system failures.

 

Wonder if ford responded by December 9, 2011.

Shane

 

There is no time limit on this, Shane, or mileage limit on it, when it gets down to $12000 repairs and the whole fuel system goes, without warranty coverage by Ford.

Frankly, you remind me of the "drive more, worry less" crowd on another website, that is until it happens to them. Then... they all sound like versions of Ricatic. I'm not one to risk taking the hit in the wallet myself, not into gambling and winning or losing. There is no "win" in this situation, if your HPFP does what it is supposed to do for 250k miles or more, without failure. There is only the down side as an owner operator of a vehicle.

I think everyone should lease their trucks from FoMoCo for 4 years, and if the HPFP dies, tell Ford to come tow the vehicle away and walk away from any more payments on the lease. Maybe then, Ford will finally "get it". One buys a new vehicle for reliability of operation for the first 100-150k miles on it. Ford has breached their contractual obligations on this one, as I see it... it's not reliable, and it's dangerous when it fails, to it's occupants and to other innocent drivers on our public roads. It's outright fraud to stick the owners insurance company for the repair, if the owner did everything right.

Ford/Bosch has brought a product into the USA that is not suitable for use on our diesel fuel. No if's, no and, no buts. Bosch has known about our fuel quality since 2003. The told ARB in CA all about it almost 10 years ago. Our
ASTM standard is 520 micron since ULSD came on the scene in 1999 in CAlif by Arco.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline...22003bosch.pdf

Also of note was that NONE of the fuel samples taken by Bosch had a problem with the amount of water in the fuel in 2002. This was California fuel, yet CA leads the way with # of HPFP failures, and VW has been quick to blame water or gas in the fuel. Maybe Bosch knows all this, because of failures experienced in Europe when major cities in Sweden came up with ULSD with 2 to 5 ppm sulfur in 1992 to prevent pollution, and pumps started croaking on the fuel?

 

I knoW you have seen this in VW. But I cannot worry about something that is not proven yet. I can't even see the smoke,,,,so I know there is no fire.

Sorry"...

Shane

 

There's your trouble.... I have seen it in the Bosch family of CP 4.x HPFP's. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE BADGE being ford, chevy, vw, Audi, BMW, MBz, what ever.

You need to forget about the tree and look at the whole damn forest.

What is it about leading horses to water, but you can't make them drink? Quit being a Ford fanboi, and look at the big picture, diesel vehicles with Bosch CP4.x family of HPFP's that fail in 2, 34, 5 years, and do the whole fuel system in.

It's all about perspective, your's is a small subset, Ford 6.7 Bosch cp4.2 powered vehicles, mine is larger, along the lines of NHTSA looking at all common rail diesel fuel pump failures by all major vehicle sellers in the USA, looking for commonality of the failures.