Gas vs PSD
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
What is everyone's big thing with caterpillar engines? Everyone refers to them like they're the undisputed king of the diesel world.
Hate to break it to you folks, but cat(or is it CAT
) is the undisputed loser. They aren't making highway engines anymore because the competition ran them out. Couldn't design a reliable emissions compliant diesel, so they stopped trying.
Why does everyone think they're one step short of God?
Hate to break it to you folks, but cat(or is it CAT
) is the undisputed loser. They aren't making highway engines anymore because the competition ran them out. Couldn't design a reliable emissions compliant diesel, so they stopped trying. Why does everyone think they're one step short of God?
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
Yeah, I remember reading awhile ago that they were using little 8 HP caterpillar industrial engines in truck APUs.
I think they make just about everything except truck engines anymore.
It's not your post so much as all the other references to cat that don't make sense to me. Really cracks me up when someone suggests they wish we had a small caterpillar turbodiesel, like the C7, in our trucks instead of the Navistar engines. And they thought the newer PSDs had problems........
Ever wonder why they paint them yellow?
I think they make just about everything except truck engines anymore.
It's not your post so much as all the other references to cat that don't make sense to me. Really cracks me up when someone suggests they wish we had a small caterpillar turbodiesel, like the C7, in our trucks instead of the Navistar engines. And they thought the newer PSDs had problems........
Ever wonder why they paint them yellow?
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
What is everyone's big thing with caterpillar engines? Everyone refers to them like they're the undisputed king of the diesel world.
Hate to break it to you folks, but cat(or is it CAT) is the undisputed loser. They aren't making highway engines anymore because the competition ran them out. Couldn't design a reliable <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_2_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%; COLOR: darkgreen">emissions
</NOBR> compliant diesel, so they stopped trying.
Why does everyone think they're one step short of God?
Hate to break it to you folks, but cat(or is it CAT
) is the undisputed loser. They aren't making highway engines anymore because the competition ran them out. Couldn't design a reliable <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_2_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%; COLOR: darkgreen">emissions</NOBR> compliant diesel, so they stopped trying. Why does everyone think they're one step short of God?
The largest engine offered in the F-650 and F-750 for the 2008 model year was the Cummins ISB 325hp@2600rpm 750tq@1800rpm and the C7 CAT 300hp@2200rpm 860tq@1440rpm. Now if you were buying a 650 or 750 which engine would you want? I would rather have the CAT. Only problem with the CAT is the price, they are quite a chunk more than the Cummins from what I'm told.
http://www.f650pickups.com/08ford.html
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 7
From: Anchorage, AK
The point of my sig is to help fire people up, just like ol' dude's sig and his mighty V10.
If v10 guys really kissed other guys, I wouldn't have let me Dad consider buying one.
Oh, and I wouldn't doubt Johnny Langton's knowledge of these things. I still remember many of his posts back in the www.modulardepot.com days.
If v10 guys really kissed other guys, I wouldn't have let me Dad consider buying one.
Oh, and I wouldn't doubt Johnny Langton's knowledge of these things. I still remember many of his posts back in the www.modulardepot.com days.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
I've always been told the torque output of the CAT engine was better than the competition. CAT has always been heavily into offroad equipment and engines. Trucking is currently down big time also and trucking companies arn't turning around trucks like they used to. Its not that CAT can't make a compliant engine they just probably crunched the numbers and decided it was not worth it anymore and decided to concentrate on there offroad line. Maybe CAT will step back into onroad engines in the future.
The largest engine offered in the F-650 and F-750 for the 2008 model year was the Cummins ISB 325hp@2600rpm 750tq@1800rpm and the C7 CAT 300hp@2200rpm 860tq@1440rpm. Now if you were buying a 650 or 750 which engine would you want? I would rather have the CAT. Only problem with the CAT is the price, they are quite a chunk more than the Cummins from what I'm told.
http://www.f650pickups.com/08ford.html
The largest engine offered in the F-650 and F-750 for the 2008 model year was the Cummins ISB 325hp@2600rpm 750tq@1800rpm and the C7 CAT 300hp@2200rpm 860tq@1440rpm. Now if you were buying a 650 or 750 which engine would you want? I would rather have the CAT. Only problem with the CAT is the price, they are quite a chunk more than the Cummins from what I'm told.
http://www.f650pickups.com/08ford.html
Cummins ISX is very similar, and it is capable of up to 600 HP and 1850 lb-ft of torque. The ISX only has one VG turbo and is widely considered to be the more reliable of the two.
People complain about their 6.0L PSDs here, where I met a driver one time who had major service done to his Cat C15 7 times in 80,000 miles. That's less than a 9-month period! THIS is largely the reason they got out of the business. The ACERT emissions system is very complex; far more so than either DD or Cummins. Works fine when everything works, but reliability is far below the other manufacturers.
And, after all of this, they still make the ISX. Not so for the C15...or the C7, C9, or C12.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 141
Likes: 1
Whose bringing the lube?
LMFAO. You guys aren't "funny haha", you're funny..... You know the rest.
Real trucks also have GVWRs in excess of 25k, have stacks for a purpose, displace over 8 liters, and usually have 10+ wheels.
You have a pickup truck, just so happens it's diesel fueled as are many other things such as generators, sunflower heaters, tractors, economy cars and even some riding lawn mowers. I don't claim my kubota diesel powered cub cadet riding lawn mower to be a REAL tractor, as you shouldn't claim to have a REAL truck just because of its fuel.
1. You ALWAYS have to change filters every 10-15k that cost more than all 10 of my plugs combined that I have to change every 100k.
2. Yes, lets talk about the "ejecting" of parts. Or even the "blowing" or "leaking" or how about even the "complete catastrophic failure" of some parts....(that last one should be a Registered Trademark of the Ford Motor Company when used in reference to the "powerstroke diesel") Don't go there, you diesel guys have much more to keep up on than us gassers do, such as EGR coolers, head gaskets and variable vane turbo failures. Two of those little examples cost more to repair on your diesels than the replacement of a complete 2v v10 engine.
If you would take a moment to go over to www.pickuptrucks.com and read the HD shootout test you'll see that yes, the diesel did start with a higher starting speed up a 15% grade with 10k behind it, But after a bit the diesel planed off and was stuck at one speed, the v10 was gaining spped at that point.
And I quote;
"Ford's F-250 and F-350 finally developed some unique performance patterns, even though they are using the same 5-speed TorqueShift transmission. But look at how well the V10 was running at the 250-meter finish line versus the V8 Power Stroke. Again the gasser was traveling faster than the compression ignition motor. The F-350's speedo barely inched up from 100-m to 250-m, while the F-250 gained over 6-mph."
This was going up a 15% grade with a 10k load.
I see PSD trucks on flatbed trailers DAILY. My v10 truck has never seen so much as a repair facility ever. Heck, I've only seen like 8 other V10 trucks period. PSDs are like a**holes, everyone has one.
HEY! I know another couple of things that diesels can do better than gas engines, and we wouldn't want to forget these;
1. leave you stranded often.
2. cost you 2-5 times more to repair and service.
3. get you real friendly with wrecker drivers and service representatives at dealers.
LOL, it's all in fun right?
BTW: the truck in my sig gets 10-13 mpg.
LMFAO. You guys aren't "funny haha", you're funny..... You know the rest.
Real trucks also have GVWRs in excess of 25k, have stacks for a purpose, displace over 8 liters, and usually have 10+ wheels.
You have a pickup truck, just so happens it's diesel fueled as are many other things such as generators, sunflower heaters, tractors, economy cars and even some riding lawn mowers. I don't claim my kubota diesel powered cub cadet riding lawn mower to be a REAL tractor, as you shouldn't claim to have a REAL truck just because of its fuel.
1. You ALWAYS have to change filters every 10-15k that cost more than all 10 of my plugs combined that I have to change every 100k.
2. Yes, lets talk about the "ejecting" of parts. Or even the "blowing" or "leaking" or how about even the "complete catastrophic failure" of some parts....(that last one should be a Registered Trademark of the Ford Motor Company when used in reference to the "powerstroke diesel") Don't go there, you diesel guys have much more to keep up on than us gassers do, such as EGR coolers, head gaskets and variable vane turbo failures. Two of those little examples cost more to repair on your diesels than the replacement of a complete 2v v10 engine.
If you would take a moment to go over to www.pickuptrucks.com and read the HD shootout test you'll see that yes, the diesel did start with a higher starting speed up a 15% grade with 10k behind it, But after a bit the diesel planed off and was stuck at one speed, the v10 was gaining spped at that point.
And I quote;
"Ford's F-250 and F-350 finally developed some unique performance patterns, even though they are using the same 5-speed TorqueShift transmission. But look at how well the V10 was running at the 250-meter finish line versus the V8 Power Stroke. Again the gasser was traveling faster than the compression ignition motor. The F-350's speedo barely inched up from 100-m to 250-m, while the F-250 gained over 6-mph."
This was going up a 15% grade with a 10k load.
I see PSD trucks on flatbed trailers DAILY. My v10 truck has never seen so much as a repair facility ever. Heck, I've only seen like 8 other V10 trucks period. PSDs are like a**holes, everyone has one.
HEY! I know another couple of things that diesels can do better than gas engines, and we wouldn't want to forget these;
1. leave you stranded often.
2. cost you 2-5 times more to repair and service.
3. get you real friendly with wrecker drivers and service representatives at dealers.
LOL, it's all in fun right?
BTW: the truck in my sig gets 10-13 mpg.
Junior User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
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FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
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From: Long Island USA
I knew someone personally who had one. His lasted 12K before major engine repairs. And those "repairs" included head gaskets going south.
Compared to the T-bird SC (and it's related XR7), they were garbage.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,754
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis
Just posting to see if I make it to page 101..
Damn, didn't.... the C& is a decent engine, they put them in our MRAP's, the 6x6 weighs about 45- 50 thousand pounds, and with a little pedal I can hit 75mph which surprised me for only having 320/750. Hell, I'm making 320/704 at the rear wheels.
Damn, didn't.... the C& is a decent engine, they put them in our MRAP's, the 6x6 weighs about 45- 50 thousand pounds, and with a little pedal I can hit 75mph which surprised me for only having 320/750. Hell, I'm making 320/704 at the rear wheels.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
The only problem with the post you quote is that it is not inaccurate. It amazes me that with google available for free people cannot do some simple research before posting. Here is where your quoted post is incorrect.
The 6.4 is fundamentally and largely the same motor as the MaxxForce 7. Here is some info
http://maxxforce.com/Application/on-...ct/MaxxForce_7
This motor is used in commercial applications including school buses and delivery trucks, etc. So, to claim that the PSD is simply a toy motor in a toy pickup is not accurate. I don't get the need from the gas community to bash the diesel motor. All of the goods you buy at WalMart were delivered by a diesel vehicle. If gas was really better for these applications, wouldn't companies use gas instead of diesel? The bottom line defines business, so if diesel is so much more costly, why haven't companies adopted gas?
The 6.4 is fundamentally and largely the same motor as the MaxxForce 7. Here is some info
http://maxxforce.com/Application/on-...ct/MaxxForce_7
This motor is used in commercial applications including school buses and delivery trucks, etc. So, to claim that the PSD is simply a toy motor in a toy pickup is not accurate. I don't get the need from the gas community to bash the diesel motor. All of the goods you buy at WalMart were delivered by a diesel vehicle. If gas was really better for these applications, wouldn't companies use gas instead of diesel? The bottom line defines business, so if diesel is so much more costly, why haven't companies adopted gas?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 7
From: Anchorage, AK
Lets just solve this the old fashion way.
Have an FTE Get Together for Beers, BBQ, a TON of Bull****ing, and some good old fashion sled pulls and drag racing.
Then people can legitimately mock each other for a year, until the next one. I have little to prove, but I love my truck like everyone else does. I would be at a meet in a heartbeat if Alaska were just a hop skip and a jump away.
We used to do this with the Mustang forums, and invite Camaros and Firebirds. All kinds of stuff went down and then people could tease and humor each other until the next year. Actually was fun too.
Have an FTE Get Together for Beers, BBQ, a TON of Bull****ing, and some good old fashion sled pulls and drag racing.
Then people can legitimately mock each other for a year, until the next one. I have little to prove, but I love my truck like everyone else does. I would be at a meet in a heartbeat if Alaska were just a hop skip and a jump away.
We used to do this with the Mustang forums, and invite Camaros and Firebirds. All kinds of stuff went down and then people could tease and humor each other until the next year. Actually was fun too.