Gas vs PSD
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,841
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville, Ca
We have been enjoying the less expensive diesel for quite some time here in Ca.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,841
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville, Ca
If you can get the turbo on the V10 to do half of what the turbo did on the Grand National, we all might go to the V10.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
I never have whined about a turbo. Facts are facts,and an engine that utilizes a turbocharger will operate with a perceived "better" towing ability. The reason for this is the "perceived" ability of the turbocharged engine to pull without "loading up" or having to downshift,etc. Why? Because the turbocharger effectively increases that engine's displacement when under boost. Watch the boost gauge on your turbo-diesel next time you start up a hill. Attempt to climb that hill without any increased boost from the turbocharger and see how well the truck maintains speed.
I've driven non-turbocharged and turbocharged diesels in the past. Both 6.2L GM's and 7.3L IDI Ford's for a delivery/vending company. I drove them for 2 years. They were all the most sluggish,fuel drinking pigs that we had in the fleet. The truck I primarily drove was a '92 F-SuperDuty dually chassis cab with a 7.3L IDI non-turbo diesel. It had an E4OD and 4.56 gears. Dead empty, it would run OK. Not quick by any means-but tolerable. Load it up with anything over 2000lbs,and it was pathetic. Foot to the floor coming up to an overpass,and it would drop from 60mph to around 45mph. We had 4 of these trucks-all identical. ALL of them behaved this exact same way. A N/A diesel is a pig.We're talking about a 444ci, 21.5:1 compression ratio engine that can't make more than 185hp/360ft-lbs. Hell,even the "lethargic" '99 6.8L made 265hp and 410ft-lbs with only 415ci and a lowly 9:1 CR.
Jump forward to the Powerstroke....Direct injection, 444ci, 17.5:1 compression, turbocharged. 275hp/525ft-lbs. So you've added direct injection, lowered compression ratio by 4 full points and still gained 90hp and 165ft-lbs. How? By the extra airflow into the engine via that turbocharger. We had one Powerstroke truck before I left that company,and it didn't have the problem falling on it's face and losing speed on overpasses like the N/A diesels did.
Turbos are a great power adder. They make HUGE amounts of torque and hp with moderate boost levels.Add that to an already high CR and large displacement,and you have a perfect fit for a great towing engine.
Proof of the turbocharger's effectiveness is in the tiny 3.5L direct injected ecoboost V6. This little 3.5L makes 350ftlbs from 2000-5000rpms.That's approx 75% of the torque that my 6.8L makes and it's 51% of the displacement!
How is this possible?
A pair of small turbochargers-that's how.
You want a fair towing comparison between the Powerstroke and the Triton V10? Get equivalent year models equipped to the same weight/towing capacity as determined by the manufacturer,leave them stock as stone and go have at it. The diesels will typically have a slight advantage,but it takes them 2x the compression and a turbocharger to do the same job as the equivalent gasoline engine with a higher initial cost.
JL
I've driven non-turbocharged and turbocharged diesels in the past. Both 6.2L GM's and 7.3L IDI Ford's for a delivery/vending company. I drove them for 2 years. They were all the most sluggish,fuel drinking pigs that we had in the fleet. The truck I primarily drove was a '92 F-SuperDuty dually chassis cab with a 7.3L IDI non-turbo diesel. It had an E4OD and 4.56 gears. Dead empty, it would run OK. Not quick by any means-but tolerable. Load it up with anything over 2000lbs,and it was pathetic. Foot to the floor coming up to an overpass,and it would drop from 60mph to around 45mph. We had 4 of these trucks-all identical. ALL of them behaved this exact same way. A N/A diesel is a pig.We're talking about a 444ci, 21.5:1 compression ratio engine that can't make more than 185hp/360ft-lbs. Hell,even the "lethargic" '99 6.8L made 265hp and 410ft-lbs with only 415ci and a lowly 9:1 CR.
Jump forward to the Powerstroke....Direct injection, 444ci, 17.5:1 compression, turbocharged. 275hp/525ft-lbs. So you've added direct injection, lowered compression ratio by 4 full points and still gained 90hp and 165ft-lbs. How? By the extra airflow into the engine via that turbocharger. We had one Powerstroke truck before I left that company,and it didn't have the problem falling on it's face and losing speed on overpasses like the N/A diesels did.
Turbos are a great power adder. They make HUGE amounts of torque and hp with moderate boost levels.Add that to an already high CR and large displacement,and you have a perfect fit for a great towing engine.
Proof of the turbocharger's effectiveness is in the tiny 3.5L direct injected ecoboost V6. This little 3.5L makes 350ftlbs from 2000-5000rpms.That's approx 75% of the torque that my 6.8L makes and it's 51% of the displacement!
How is this possible?
A pair of small turbochargers-that's how.
You want a fair towing comparison between the Powerstroke and the Triton V10? Get equivalent year models equipped to the same weight/towing capacity as determined by the manufacturer,leave them stock as stone and go have at it. The diesels will typically have a slight advantage,but it takes them 2x the compression and a turbocharger to do the same job as the equivalent gasoline engine with a higher initial cost.
JL
n/a to n/a there is no comparison, diesel can be a great power plant, but this does not mean that my V10 is not, to each their own
what about the claim of over 14mpg towing 15K
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
You mean the Grand National 3.8 that kept blowing head gaskets because of head bolt stretch?
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
Right. There's a high pressure fuel pump instead of a high pressure oil pump. Pressurizes fuel to 26,000 PSI without needing a supply of engine oil.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,841
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville, Ca
On sub 11 second cars this was a problem because of all the boost they were generating. The 12 second cars were very dependable daily drivers. I think a 12 second or even a 14 second V10 truck would be awesome.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
You want a fair towing comparison between the Powerstroke and the Triton V10? Get equivalent year models equipped to the same weight/towing capacity as determined by the manufacturer,leave them stock as stone and go have at it. The diesels will typically have a slight advantage,but it takes them 2x the compression and a turbocharger to do the same job as the equivalent gasoline engine with a higher initial cost.
JL
JL
You only pay for the diesel engine once, you pay for the gasser every time you fill up.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
JL
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
You've obviously never towed at high altitude.
You guys down there at sea-level have no idea what a dachshund your engine is compared to a turbocharged engine at, say, 7000 feet.
You guys down there at sea-level have no idea what a dachshund your engine is compared to a turbocharged engine at, say, 7000 feet.
you can't fix stupid!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 2
nuff said (whiny mention to turbo #3)
I never have whined about a turbo. Facts are facts,and an engine that utilizes a turbocharger will operate with a perceived "better" towing ability. The reason for this is the "perceived" ability of the turbocharged engine to pull without "loading up" or having to downshift,etc. Why? Because the turbocharger effectively increases that engine's displacement when under boost. Watch the boost gauge on your turbo-diesel next time you start up a hill. Attempt to climb that hill without any increased boost from the turbocharger and see how well the truck maintains speed.
I've driven non-turbocharged and turbocharged diesels in the past. Both 6.2L GM's and 7.3L IDI Ford's for a delivery/vending company. I drove them for 2 years. They were all the most sluggish,fuel drinking pigs that we had in the fleet. The truck I primarily drove was a '92 F-SuperDuty dually chassis cab with a 7.3L IDI non-turbo diesel. It had an E4OD and 4.56 gears. Dead empty, it would run OK. Not quick by any means-but tolerable. Load it up with anything over 2000lbs,and it was pathetic. Foot to the floor coming up to an overpass,and it would drop from 60mph to around 45mph. We had 4 of these trucks-all identical. ALL of them behaved this exact same way. A N/A diesel is a pig.We're talking about a 444ci, 21.5:1 compression ratio engine that can't make more than 185hp/360ft-lbs. Hell,even the "lethargic" '99 6.8L made 265hp and 410ft-lbs with only 415ci and a lowly 9:1 CR.
Jump forward to the Powerstroke....Direct injection, 444ci, 17.5:1 compression, turbocharged. 275hp/525ft-lbs. So you've added direct injection, lowered compression ratio by 4 full points and still gained 90hp and 165ft-lbs. How? By the extra airflow into the engine via that turbocharger. We had one Powerstroke truck before I left that company,and it didn't have the problem falling on it's face and losing speed on overpasses like the N/A diesels did.
Turbos are a great power adder. They make HUGE amounts of torque and hp with moderate boost levels.Add that to an already high CR and large displacement,and you have a perfect fit for a great towing engine.
Proof of the turbocharger's effectiveness is in the tiny 3.5L direct injected ecoboost V6. This little 3.5L makes 350ftlbs from 2000-5000rpms.That's approx 75% of the torque that my 6.8L makes and it's 51% of the displacement!
How is this possible?
A pair of small turbochargers-that's how.
You want a fair towing comparison between the Powerstroke and the Triton V10? Get equivalent year models equipped to the same weight/towing capacity as determined by the manufacturer,leave them stock as stone and go have at it. The diesels will typically have a slight advantage,but it takes them 2x the compression and a turbocharger to do the same job as the equivalent gasoline engine with a higher initial cost.
JL
I've driven non-turbocharged and turbocharged diesels in the past. Both 6.2L GM's and 7.3L IDI Ford's for a delivery/vending company. I drove them for 2 years. They were all the most sluggish,fuel drinking pigs that we had in the fleet. The truck I primarily drove was a '92 F-SuperDuty dually chassis cab with a 7.3L IDI non-turbo diesel. It had an E4OD and 4.56 gears. Dead empty, it would run OK. Not quick by any means-but tolerable. Load it up with anything over 2000lbs,and it was pathetic. Foot to the floor coming up to an overpass,and it would drop from 60mph to around 45mph. We had 4 of these trucks-all identical. ALL of them behaved this exact same way. A N/A diesel is a pig.We're talking about a 444ci, 21.5:1 compression ratio engine that can't make more than 185hp/360ft-lbs. Hell,even the "lethargic" '99 6.8L made 265hp and 410ft-lbs with only 415ci and a lowly 9:1 CR.
Jump forward to the Powerstroke....Direct injection, 444ci, 17.5:1 compression, turbocharged. 275hp/525ft-lbs. So you've added direct injection, lowered compression ratio by 4 full points and still gained 90hp and 165ft-lbs. How? By the extra airflow into the engine via that turbocharger. We had one Powerstroke truck before I left that company,and it didn't have the problem falling on it's face and losing speed on overpasses like the N/A diesels did.
Turbos are a great power adder. They make HUGE amounts of torque and hp with moderate boost levels.Add that to an already high CR and large displacement,and you have a perfect fit for a great towing engine.
Proof of the turbocharger's effectiveness is in the tiny 3.5L direct injected ecoboost V6. This little 3.5L makes 350ftlbs from 2000-5000rpms.That's approx 75% of the torque that my 6.8L makes and it's 51% of the displacement!
How is this possible?
A pair of small turbochargers-that's how.
You want a fair towing comparison between the Powerstroke and the Triton V10? Get equivalent year models equipped to the same weight/towing capacity as determined by the manufacturer,leave them stock as stone and go have at it. The diesels will typically have a slight advantage,but it takes them 2x the compression and a turbocharger to do the same job as the equivalent gasoline engine with a higher initial cost.
JL
we know you have to make excuses for why we are going to kick you gasser guys in the nutz up one side and down the other but i rather you just PUT UP OR SHUT UP! none of this stock v. a 1984 idi diesel
if youre trucks is so bad then take it to the line with tow in trail or not but be prepared to have your azz handed to you by the coal rollin' strokin' machine next to you. indyF-350psd OUT!!!!!!!!!!
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
you talk about equal but our trucks came stock with a turbo so where is the logic? (whiny mention of turbo #1)
youre a v10 guy but somehow an expert on powerstroke turbos (whiny relation to turbo #2)
nuff said (whiny mention to turbo #3)
again with the turbo stuff (whiny mention #4)
you have been whiny about turbo's and if you want me to pull a hill without raising turbo boost, then you pull the same hill without raising your rpm's. after all a powerstroke gets power from the turbo where as your gasser gets it from rpm's so that should equal it out since youre all about being equal......
see the first of your quotes and anwer me as to why you want us to take our turbo's off and why then you are going to put a turbo on. its the same BS that keeps coming from all you guys. stock v. stock
we know you have to make excuses for why we are going to kick you gasser guys in the nutz up one side and down the other but i rather you just PUT UP OR SHUT UP! none of this stock v. a 1984 idi diesel
if youre trucks is so bad then take it to the line with tow in trail or not but be prepared to have your azz handed to you by the coal rollin' strokin' machine next to you. indyF-350psd OUT!!!!!!!!!!
youre a v10 guy but somehow an expert on powerstroke turbos (whiny relation to turbo #2)
nuff said (whiny mention to turbo #3)
again with the turbo stuff (whiny mention #4)
you have been whiny about turbo's and if you want me to pull a hill without raising turbo boost, then you pull the same hill without raising your rpm's. after all a powerstroke gets power from the turbo where as your gasser gets it from rpm's so that should equal it out since youre all about being equal......
see the first of your quotes and anwer me as to why you want us to take our turbo's off and why then you are going to put a turbo on. its the same BS that keeps coming from all you guys. stock v. stock
we know you have to make excuses for why we are going to kick you gasser guys in the nutz up one side and down the other but i rather you just PUT UP OR SHUT UP! none of this stock v. a 1984 idi diesel
if youre trucks is so bad then take it to the line with tow in trail or not but be prepared to have your azz handed to you by the coal rollin' strokin' machine next to you. indyF-350psd OUT!!!!!!!!!!
if your truck is as bad as you say, then why must you try to prove it to anyone? lose the insecurities and just be content with your bad as hell diesel, YOU ARE THE BEST, YOUR TRUCK IS THE BEST, YOUR TRUCK CAN OUTDO MY TRUCK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, DO YOU FEEL BETTER NOW?
FTE Legend
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 37,887
Likes: 20
From: North Central Rural Sask.
Also, to the fella that said who leaves their truck stock, well I do! I love the stock power of my truck, the economy, and everything about it. Im a little afraid to add mods to mine, cause I would like to see if I can over over a million with it.
Im actually with the guys that say lets run our trucks stock VS each other and compare them! Similiar years, both either the lowest or highest ratios in the truck, similar sized tires, conditions, etc.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
That will also close up the initial cost advantage that a v10 has over a diesel. I wonder if a turbo on a gasser would reduce the longevity of the engine at all? Im thinking the extra power on stock components...?
Im actually with the guys that say lets run our trucks stock VS each other and compare them!
Im actually with the guys that say lets run our trucks stock VS each other and compare them!
I agree that adding a single turbo "kit" will be a bit of cost added to the V10,but if done right,one could probably get into it for under $3000 if they did their homework and some of the work themselves.Besides,I'm not gonna spend $3000+ on wheels/tires/lift kit,etc,etc,etc.....
I agree with the stock vs stock,but both equally equipped as sped'd by the manufacturer for a particular weight rating. By changing gear ratios on either version of the truck-you're skewing the results in favor of one or the other. The manufacturers know what they're doing when they design an equipment package for a truck based on the weight it will be rated to tow.
JL
you can't fix stupid!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 2
you are one insecure individual, if you were as righteous as you THINK you are, you would not need to come on here and sound like an 8 year old kid, i swear your comments came straight from some bully in elementary school
if your truck is as bad as you say, then why must you try to prove it to anyone? lose the insecurities and just be content with your bad as hell diesel, YOU ARE THE BEST, YOUR TRUCK IS THE BEST, YOUR TRUCK CAN OUTDO MY TRUCK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, DO YOU FEEL BETTER NOW?
if your truck is as bad as you say, then why must you try to prove it to anyone? lose the insecurities and just be content with your bad as hell diesel, YOU ARE THE BEST, YOUR TRUCK IS THE BEST, YOUR TRUCK CAN OUTDO MY TRUCK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, DO YOU FEEL BETTER NOW?
show me where in my post i said it was MY truck that was so bad! and you need to re-read all 99 pages if you think i am acting like an 8 year old. j-l has been calling people ignorant and getting pretty riled up when anyone had anything to say about what he posted yet he still makes no sense. ok you want to go stock v. stock then lets do it! why does he then say to take off the turbo? thats not stock for a later model powerstroke which is what we all in here who drive powerstroke's are driving. what makes me sound anymore childish than that of your fellow v10 driver j-l? nothing other than the fact that you both are gasser drivers so thats why you side with him. but thats fine, its a free country to roam the internet as a poser and never back up the trash you talk......
