Gas vs PSD
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,724
Likes: 74
From: Blue Hill Township
Actually, the old ones didn't. They had superchargers, or some people called them blowers. Gear driven at that. Turbos were available on the later years as they were trying to boost HP to run with the Cats and Cummins of the time. Probably the best applications for those old Detroits were in the big tour buses. Then there's the marine applications too. Some of your tug boats still have them. Don't know how big they are, but they won't fit in a semi without extreme modifications.
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Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
Well yeah that's how a two stroke works. I thought you were saying they need to figure out a way that you don't need to premix fuel and oil. If you think there's a way to separate the two, in sure the industry would be quite interested 
Then again the EPA would not be interested at all unless the emissions were at least as "good" as modern 4 strokes.
PS I thought that was part of the reason two strokes were so compact and light for the same power output was the marriage of oil and fuel. Of course, they're not "wasting" two of the strokes, so maybe if you could separate fuel and oil you'd still have the same advantage?
Then again the EPA would not be interested at all unless the emissions were at least as "good" as modern 4 strokes.
PS I thought that was part of the reason two strokes were so compact and light for the same power output was the marriage of oil and fuel. Of course, they're not "wasting" two of the strokes, so maybe if you could separate fuel and oil you'd still have the same advantage?
Yes basically.
What I mean by keeping the oil and gas separate is only inject gas into the combustion chamber (cylinder) for ignition so that the emissions would be the same as a 4 stroke engine.
The way 2 strokes work now is the gas/oil mixture is "pumped" by the crank/rod combo spinning around. In order to do that the oil needs to be in the gas to lubricate the main and rod bearings because you can't have just oil in the crank case when it is used to push the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder.
What I like about 2 strokes is that they fire on every stroke basically giving them the ability to put out near twice the power of a similar 4 stroke.
My idea is to force induce a "2 stroke" engine by other means besides the crank case. So then the crank and rod bearings could use a pump oil system much like a 4 stroke. Still use the cylinder ports and the new forced induction to run the motor like a 2 stroke firing on every cycle.
I would think a turbo would be most efficient at this but the hardest to "get running". A supercharger setup would be the easiest to get running but in turn robs much of the "extra power" that was created by the 2 stroke idea.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,808
Likes: 456
Can't put forced induction on a conventional 2 stroke, unfortunately. The new direct injected optimax merc outboards have an air pump that pressurizes the fuel rail with air pressure that is close to the pressure of the fuel. This creates another way to provide "forced induction" without sending it through the case where the reeds would be pushed closed by a charger. These are also amazingly efficient, the air pressure introduced at the fuel rail atomizes fuel at the nozzle like no other injector can. The air pumps are a bit finnicky but they're working it out.
2 strokes are awesome, make great power in small and simple packages, but using the piston as the valves leaves a lot on the table in the form of performance. A good bit of the stroke is wasted because of the overlap of the ports, sending combustion out before it's had time to convert to mechanical motion to its max potential.
2 strokes are awesome, make great power in small and simple packages, but using the piston as the valves leaves a lot on the table in the form of performance. A good bit of the stroke is wasted because of the overlap of the ports, sending combustion out before it's had time to convert to mechanical motion to its max potential.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,735
Likes: 1
From: Hattiesburg, Ms.
At least they had a turbo! I've driven some of the older HMMWVs with the N/A 6.2L engine. They might be capable of 60 MPH, but only running downhill with a tail wind. I wouldn't expect any other N/A diesel to do any better though. Diesels need boost to make power, gas engines don't. Does that mean Gas > Diesel?
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,113
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
, I don't know of any currently still on the road.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 13
New User
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Joshua, Texas
Ive had them both, purchase price of the v10 looks good compared to the PS. Cost of the PS is a bit more but the longevity of the PS is where its at. V10 grossed out on weight will not get even close on the fuel mileage that a PS will. We have two f550 with the v10 and two with the PS all four of them will weigh in at 16500lbs. The PS will get 13.5 -14.5 mpg while the v10 is getting 5-6 mpg.
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
You guys will laugh but I've been considering a 5.7 project. I think if the issues can be dealt with, and it seems they can, a 5.7 and 700R4 would make a good small pickup/suv drivetrain.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 13
There's some impressive 6.5s around, I wouldn't bother with one in a world that includes the 7.3IDI, but to each there own.
You guys will laugh but I've been considering a 5.7 project. I think if the issues can be dealt with, and it seems they can, a 5.7 and 700R4 would make a good small pickup/suv drivetrain.
You guys will laugh but I've been considering a 5.7 project. I think if the issues can be dealt with, and it seems they can, a 5.7 and 700R4 would make a good small pickup/suv drivetrain.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
There are turbo kits available for anything.
Guy says a bad word in here. Close your ears.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
There's some impressive 6.5s around, I wouldn't bother with one in a world that includes the 7.3IDI, but to each there own.
You guys will laugh but I've been considering a 5.7 project. I think if the issues can be dealt with, and it seems they can, a 5.7 and 700R4 would make a good small pickup/suv drivetrain.
You guys will laugh but I've been considering a 5.7 project. I think if the issues can be dealt with, and it seems they can, a 5.7 and 700R4 would make a good small pickup/suv drivetrain.
The 6.5's are cool, but they are not a real tough engine.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
Yes basically.
What I mean by keeping the oil and gas separate is only inject gas into the combustion chamber (cylinder) for ignition so that the emissions would be the same as a 4 stroke engine.
The way 2 strokes work now is the gas/oil mixture is "pumped" by the crank/rod combo spinning around. In order to do that the oil needs to be in the gas to lubricate the main and rod bearings because you can't have just oil in the crank case when it is used to push the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder.
What I like about 2 strokes is that they fire on every stroke basically giving them the ability to put out near twice the power of a similar 4 stroke.
My idea is to force induce a "2 stroke" engine by other means besides the crank case. So then the crank and rod bearings could use a pump oil system much like a 4 stroke. Still use the cylinder ports and the new forced induction to run the motor like a 2 stroke firing on every cycle.
I would think a turbo would be most efficient at this but the hardest to "get running". A supercharger setup would be the easiest to get running but in turn robs much of the "extra power" that was created by the 2 stroke idea.
What I mean by keeping the oil and gas separate is only inject gas into the combustion chamber (cylinder) for ignition so that the emissions would be the same as a 4 stroke engine.
The way 2 strokes work now is the gas/oil mixture is "pumped" by the crank/rod combo spinning around. In order to do that the oil needs to be in the gas to lubricate the main and rod bearings because you can't have just oil in the crank case when it is used to push the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder.
What I like about 2 strokes is that they fire on every stroke basically giving them the ability to put out near twice the power of a similar 4 stroke.
My idea is to force induce a "2 stroke" engine by other means besides the crank case. So then the crank and rod bearings could use a pump oil system much like a 4 stroke. Still use the cylinder ports and the new forced induction to run the motor like a 2 stroke firing on every cycle.
I would think a turbo would be most efficient at this but the hardest to "get running". A supercharger setup would be the easiest to get running but in turn robs much of the "extra power" that was created by the 2 stroke idea.
Take the 7.3 engine, fill the block coolant passages with epoxy or cement. Then, drill a hole into each cylinder from the outside in, so that it's uncovered at bottom dead center.
Put in new cams, so that both valves open at the same time, every near bottom dead center. Double sided, so every cycle they open.
Install supercharger, to force air into the intake holes in the block.
Then, move camshaft position sensor to crank, so that it runs as a 2 stroke!
Since the 7.3 injectors start running out of steam around 2800 RPM, they would now run out around 1400 RPM, so better do a gear ratio swap.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
Me, a 6.5, no.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
Take the 7.3 engine, fill the block coolant passages with epoxy or cement. Then, drill a hole into each cylinder from the outside in, so that it's uncovered at bottom dead center.
Put in new cams, so that both valves open at the same time, every near bottom dead center. Double sided, so every cycle they open.
Install supercharger, to force air into the intake holes in the block.
Then, move camshaft position sensor to crank, so that it runs as a 2 stroke!
Since the 7.3 injectors start running out of steam around 2800 RPM, they would now run out around 1400 RPM, so better do a gear ratio swap.
Put in new cams, so that both valves open at the same time, every near bottom dead center. Double sided, so every cycle they open.
Install supercharger, to force air into the intake holes in the block.
Then, move camshaft position sensor to crank, so that it runs as a 2 stroke!
Since the 7.3 injectors start running out of steam around 2800 RPM, they would now run out around 1400 RPM, so better do a gear ratio swap.
One of the benefits of 2 stoke is high rpm's though. They love to run near max rpm all the time, just love it!. lol
I love the sound of a 2 stroke whining at 8K+ rpm! I would miss the smell of the 2 stroke oil though. I used to be able to tell what kind of snowmobile I was coming up on while on the trails by just the smell of the 2 stroke oil.