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Fair enough, just wanted to make clear I was just answering the question. You can see by my username, we've had a couple of 6.0s and then a 2012 6.7L. Really loved that 6.7 but I got rid of it because of post-combustion treatment systems. They worked great BUT my use case was such that I wasn't towing all the time and some of my trips are just a few miles and in the winter where it gets down in single digits. I was afraid I was going to kill it with the short trips. We are getting close enough to where we can see retiring in a few years and want to get a 5th wheel and I don't want to deal with the diesel exhaust issues so, a week ago, we ordered a '24 7.3L F350 SCREW with 4.30 gear set. Where we live, the Ram guys are ridiculous. Everyone deletes and tunes. They all smoke and are noisy. It also gets a little ridiculous in the campgrounds with the deleted guys, waking you up and extensive idling. So yea, I'm a little jaded towards the question. BadKev. I understand the issue why one would want to delete. The 6.7L is a great motor, but post-treatment headaches are real. I'm just happy FoMoCo gave us a viable heavy-duty gas option. Thanks and safe truckin' to you.
When I pulled the trigger after buying my 16, I started to research on the 6.7 and saw how some had issues with emissions. I started researching deletes. But once I started monitoring regens through the first iDash I had, and saw how it did it's thing through my daily driving routine and the area I live in South of Buffalo, I saw that the hills get my truck hot enough to keep them working good enough.
I'm just hoping those SOA pistons prove themselves because if they do, and if I need a rebuild on my engine, I'd definitely consider a set when time. And if so, then emissions should last longer and be cleaner with their use. I do like being stock and not loud, but would consider deleting like my buddy did with that muffler as the truck was very stock sounding and no smoke.
But when it comes to the deleted guys, i see all brands deleted here, I hear you. Some are loud and throw lots of smoke. I usually see them on my way into work and back home on the expressway I take everyday. It does leave a bad taste in your mouth, especially the aggressive drivers who drive like their money is burning a hole in their pockets and who make all guys driving pickups look bad because they drive like @$$ hats.
Good luck with your new truck. Appreciate your honesty.
You might need the emissions system intact to sell it someday
Because it pollutes more
Try up to $40,000 in fines, something like $8-$10K per violation and a complete delete is like five violations.
Originally Posted by BerndV
So what you are stating is that anyone that deletes and rolls coal deserves a 30-80k fine depending on the age of the truck. You would have made a fine Bolshevik or Stasi informant in East Germany. However, I'm sure you've personally led an exemplary and morally superior life. The world is undoubtedly a better place with you in it to self righteously wag your finger at wrong doers. Do you drive in the left lane at the precise speed limit parallel to someone in the right lane to ensure no one can pass and exceed the posted speed limit?
PRAY you never get COPD or some other form of a respiratory illness where a little soot from a tailpipe leaves you wheezing and gasping for breath. If you want to **** away fuel running at 85 MPH in the left lane, I won't get in your way, and no I do not sit AT the speed limit either, I have done my fair share of triple digit runs. But if you are going to be stupid and ignorant and blow smoke while also making a crap load of noise, then you deserve to have the law come down on you hard. I drove a deleted truck and I could not put up with the exhaust smell, and it would puff at times when downshifting like getting on the highway, so I got rid of it, let it be someone elses problem since I bought it that way. What I am saying on these threads is do it at your own risk, putting OUT what those RISKS are. Also keep in mind that there is a reason for the DPF and that is to cut down on the heavy soot the diesel can produce that DOES cause respiratory issues. The results of particulates is REAL, especially for those who have breathing difficulties.
There is a difference between the soot from a gas engine and a diesel engine, the difference being it's composition, Diesel particulates are much heavier and stay low to the ground where gas particulates float higher and break up easier. If you ever have watched an older DE locomotive start up and run under load, you will see this heavy dark cloud that slowly sinks to the ground. You wont see that with a gas engine though, it dissipates and rises much faster. The STINK though from the cats, that is much worse than diesel. YUCK. It is almost as bad to breath in and can get me into a coughing fit if not careful.
Try up to $40,000 in fines, something like $8-$10K per violation and a complete delete is like five violations.
PRAY you never get COPD or some other form of a respiratory illness where a little soot from a tailpipe leaves you wheezing and gasping for breath.If you want to **** away fuel running at 85 MPH in the left lane, I won't get in your way, and no I do not sit AT the speed limit either, I have done my fair share of triple digit runs. But if you are going to be stupid and ignorant and blow smoke while also making a crap load of noise, then you deserve to have the law come down on you hard. I drove a deleted truck and I could not put up with the exhaust smell, and it would puff at times when downshifting like getting on the highway, so I got rid of it, let it be someone else's problem since I bought it that way. What I am saying on these threads is do it at your own risk, putting OUT what those RISKS are. Also keep in mind that there is a reason for the DPF and that is to cut down on the heavy soot the diesel can produce that DOES cause respiratory issues. The results of particulates is REAL, especially for those who have breathing difficulties.
There is a difference between the soot from a gas engine and a diesel engine, the difference being it's composition, Diesel particulates are much heavier and stay low to the ground where gas particulates float higher and break up easier. If you ever have watched an older DE locomotive start up and run under load, you will see this heavy dark cloud that slowly sinks to the ground. You wont see that with a gas engine though, it dissipates and rises much faster. The STINK though from the cats, that is much worse than diesel. YUCK. It is almost as bad to breath in and can get me into a coughing fit if not careful.
Someone pissed in your Cheerios?
Read some of the threads on this forum about the 6.7L trucks using a lot of DEF, getting the speed restricted warning when DEF is low, DEF heater problems, etc. Deleting the wasteful emissions on my truck was the best thing I ever did.
With the proper tune and the right muffler the truck won't roll coal or make a "crap load of noise".
Take your dramatics and go virtue signal somewhere else.
Read some of the threads on this forum about the 6.7L trucks using a lot of DEF, getting the speed restricted warning when DEF is low, DEF heater problems, etc. Deleting the wasteful emissions on my truck was the best thing I ever did.
With the proper tune and the right muffler the truck won't roll coal or make a "crap load of noise".
Take your dramatics and go virtue signal somewhere else.
Gotta be honest, with everything I've said prior, it's because of @$$ hats like that moron Ram owner pictured, drawing attention to himself by spewing unburned fuel out those stacks, that we are in the pickle we are in with the EPA... Add in modern technology aka social media, here we are...
Since I'm the Gale Banks salesman here, I've been told, I'm going to quote him (paraphrasing here..) :
"You don't need smoke to make power..."
Those morons are just dumping fuel aka dollars out their exhausts while giving all of us a bad image to John/Jane Q Public.
Read some of the threads on this forum about the 6.7L trucks using a lot of DEF, getting the speed restricted warning when DEF is low, DEF heater problems, etc. Deleting the wasteful emissions on my truck was the best thing I ever did.
With the proper tune and the right muffler the truck won't roll coal or make a "crap load of noise".
Take your dramatics and go virtue signal somewhere else.
acdii has stated that he has COPD and deleted diesels trigger respiratory distress in him why are you criticizing him for bringing up a valid issue? Do you make fun of others with health problems or disabilities? Say one of the kids that you like jumping on your lap has asthma and it gets triggered due to your truck. You can be held responsible due to your illegal truck and be sued for their medical expenses.
Deleted trucks aren't the cause of global warming nor the sole reason of respiratory problems. Rubber particulates from all tires cause way more pollution than tailpipe emissions. The top 1% political elites and celebrities pollute more than the lower 2/3rds of world population. Large vessels like cruise ships can burn upwards of 250 tons of fuel per day- 80,000 gallons. You'd have to burn 30 gallons a week every week for 50+ years to come near that fuel usage. And that's maritime crude with a higher sulfur content than pump ULSD. I'm not for or against deleting, do whatever you want but deleted trucks aren't changing the world. Smoke stacks in beds should be banned though.
Nobody said anything about global warming. NOx, CO, pm 2.5, pm 10. Those are the pollutants for which DEF and DPF seek to reduce in diesel exhaust. You're going to get all the CO2 regardless of delete or not delete.
acdii has stated that he has COPD and deleted diesels trigger respiratory distress in him why are you criticizing him for bringing up a valid issue?
Do you make fun of others with health problems or disabilities?
Say one of the kids that you like jumping on your lap has asthma and it gets triggered due to your truck. You can be held responsible due to your illegal truck and be sued for their medical expenses.
Good luck with that.
By the way I also have 2 electric cars; GM Bolt and a Tesla Y.
Gotta be honest, with everything I've said prior, it's because of @$$ hats like that moron Ram owner pictured, drawing attention to himself by spewing unburned fuel out those stacks, that we are in the pickle we are in with the EPA... Add in modern technology aka social media, here we are...
Since I'm the Gale Banks salesman here, I've been told, I'm going to quote him (paraphrasing here..) :
"You don't need smoke to make power..."
Those morons are just dumping fuel aka dollars out their exhausts while giving all of us a bad image to John/Jane Q Public.
The reality is that 98% of deletes are fueling at the optimum stoichiometric ratio. These trucks emit very little in the way of dark smoke other than a brief puff when you first put your foot in it. It is an undeniable fact that a deleted diesel with a well designed tune will last longer, be easier to work on, get better fuel economy, make more power, will require less maintenance, no DEF, and will have far fewer problems over the life of the engine. Emissions related parts have been and continue to be the primary source of most complaints and problems with modern diesels. A casual perusal through this and many other diesel forums reveals an endless litany of threads devoted to EGR, DPF, and regen issues. With the 6.7, the only non-emission component that gets close is the CP4 and there is now a permanent fix for this weak link thanks to S&S. Most deleted trucks still use a muffler and are almost as quiet as stock. Muffler or not, it's difficult to make a turbocharged engine obnoxiously loud. There are hundreds of thousands of deleted diesel trucks on the road. Virtually none of them are getting into legal trouble. The few exceptions reside in one of the progressive utopias like New York or California. There are also hundreds of thousands of pre-emission regulation trucks that will be on the road for decades to come because they last a very long time. If you have asthma or COPD and live in an urban or suburban area, deleted trucks are the least of your air quality concerns. This clip is typical of a 6.7 delete and the truck does not have a muffler:
So felt the need here to comment as a buddy of mine just deleted his 16 F350 with 135k miles... Had sensor codes, warranty expired and he does use the truck to pull construction equipment and supplies, so he said it idles too much.
I've always said I'm not against deleting, understand why guys do it but just can't stand the @$$ hats who roll coal on overfueling race tunes...
That said, he bought the flash tuner, 4 tunes (stock, light tow, heavy tow and performance), EGR bypass kit and exhaust with the optional muffler.
He took me for a ride and let me tell you, in the heavy tow tune, the truck IMO did not smoke visibly and was barely louder than my stock truck. The tips were darker but not black tinted and had no soot on them when I wiped my finger on the inside.
I've got no desire to delete my truck but down the line, my buddy said his tuner will do four trucks... I was impressed on how stock like sounding his truck was and no coal coming out of the tailpipe. He said he's got zero interest in running the performance tune as that's just money out the tailpipe in unspent fuel and drawing attention to yourself...
^^^ this is my prior comment in this thread...
Furthermore, my buddy thinks like I do because I'd imagine the heavy tow adds less fuel than the light tow, because I'd assume less fuel for lower EGTs esp. when pulling heavier loads, so he wants reliability and stay off the radar...
Originally Posted by BerndV
The reality is that 98% of deletes are fueling at the optimum stoichiometric ratio. These trucks emit very little in the way of dark smoke other than a brief puff when you first put your foot in it. It is an undeniable fact that a deleted diesel with a well designed tune will last longer, be easier to work on, get better fuel economy, make more power, will require less maintenance, no DEF, and will have far fewer problems over the life of the engine. Emissions related parts have been and continue to be the primary source of most complaints and problems with modern diesels. A casual perusal through this and many other diesel forums reveals an endless litany of threads devoted to EGR, DPF, and regen issues. With the 6.7, the only non-emission component that gets close is the CP4 and there is now a permanent fix for this weak link thanks to S&S. Most deleted trucks still use a muffler and are almost as quiet as stock. Muffler or not, it's difficult to make a turbocharged engine obnoxiously loud. There are hundreds of thousands of deleted diesel trucks on the road. Virtually none of them are getting into legal trouble. The few exceptions reside in one of the progressive utopias like New York or California. There are also hundreds of thousands of pre-emission regulation trucks that will be on the road for decades to come because they last a very long time. If you have asthma or COPD and live in an urban or suburban area, deleted trucks are the least of your air quality concerns. This clip is typical of a 6.7 delete and the truck does not have a muffler:
https://youtube.com/shorts/3IXw2FjW2...uYhAS8HWRBovGB
I agree with most of your points but a few. Saying 98% are running stock and are at the optimum AFR is a guess at best... I also call bull on every deleted truck getting more mileage. Also saying it's difficult to make a turbo charged engine obnoxious is false... and there are many deleted trucks here in the progressive utopia of New York. Quite frankly, the government is progressive. All citizens are NOT, myself included. I won't start talking politics because that's what the Club is for in the General forum section. The guys who have a problem are the ones who use their trucks for commercial uses. The everyday guy driving to work or pulling camper will probably not, but no guarantees, have any issues, except if they were to go down to the Rotten Apple. Because of density of population and the CARB laws, they have emissions testing as well as equipment safety checks for yearly inspections. Here in WNY, they just do the equipment inspection and plug the truck in to check for CELs.
I'm a fan of the OBS trucks... always will be. I hear you on the pre-emissions stuff. Remember when gas cars first got emissions components on them? They performed like schitt... my Dad always yanked off that stuff off the beaters he bought because there were always problems. Look at the gasoline emissions now and how well they perform with usually no issues and great gas mileage. Emissions strategies on modern diesels will continue to move forward and advance... they have to as these emissions laws are going nowhere. The new generation of 6.7s use less EGR and more DEF because it's cleaner for the engine, which is good thing... I mentioned those SOA piston design. They have the potential to make diesel after exhaust treatments about obsolete... yes, time and testing, CARB certification, will tell. I remember reading on multi duct injectors as well that drastically reduced emissions in lab testing. There are probably more advancements that will come down the pike, but to say deleting is the only option for everyone or to say that everyone is having emissions problems on the 6.7 powered truck is bull too. I have 115k miles on my truck and I'm having zero issues with the only emissions component replaced is the DEF heater under warranty.
Is it a PITA to drive the truck, when convenient, to get it to go into regen and get it done? **** YES... but it's the price I'm willing to pay and put up with to drive a wanted not needed 6.7 F350 because I love driving my truck. It's not for everyone, that's for sure, for a daily driver... YMMV.
The people that have the aforementioned problems are the ones who don't get the trucks hot enough and would be better served to have a gasser. But that's their choice to delete or NOT to. Yes, it sucks that they can't drive their 6.7 around town like a F150 but it is what it is. That is why engine component design and emissions technologies will continue to advance to the point that 6.7s will be able to drive around town like an Explorer... you think Ford doesn't want to sell more new 6.7 Super Dutys to people who want them but don't need them and make more $$$ in the process while not having to deal with emissions warranty claims? Americans love trucks and will buy them...
As to your claim that the truck in the video is not loud, that is subjective. I've run across plenty of deleted trucks with 5 inch exhausts, some with a black obnoxious 8 inch tip on the tailpipe, that are loud as hell... because they are obnoxious drivers on the expressway. I run across many fuel rich tuned deleted trucks on the way in to work and back home.
Another thing to point to out here, it's a damn shame for some of you to dismiss a guy who has health issues all because maybe you DON'T have any and because of it, he doesn't agree with the religion of deleting... The guy owned a deleted truck for God's sake... so how about we all take a step back and have the conversation with respect for each other's opinions because like butt holes, we all got 'em.... Have a great day.
I agree with most of your points but a few. Saying 98% are running stock and are at the optimum AFR is a guess at best... I also call bull on every deleted truck getting more mileage. Also saying it's difficult to make a turbo charged engine obnoxious is false... and there are many deleted trucks here in the progressive utopia of New York. Quite frankly, the government is progressive. All citizens are NOT, myself included. I won't start talking politics because that's what the Club is for in the General forum section. The guys who have a problem are the ones who use their trucks for commercial uses. The everyday guy driving to work or pulling camper will probably not, but no guarantees, have any issues, except if they were to go down to the Rotten Apple. Because of density of population and the CARB laws, they have emissions testing as well as equipment safety checks for yearly inspections. Here in WNY, they just do the equipment inspection and plug the truck in to check for CELs.
I'm a fan of the OBS trucks... always will be. I hear you on the pre-emissions stuff. Remember when gas cars first got emissions components on them? They performed like schitt... my Dad always yanked off that stuff off the beaters he bought because there were always problems. Look at the gasoline emissions now and how well they perform with usually no issues and great gas mileage. Emissions strategies on modern diesels will continue to move forward and advance... they have to as these emissions laws are going nowhere. The new generation of 6.7s use less EGR and more DEF because it's cleaner for the engine, which is good thing... I mentioned those SOA piston design. They have the potential to make diesel after exhaust treatments about obsolete... yes, time and testing, CARB certification, will tell. I remember reading on multi duct injectors as well that drastically reduced emissions in lab testing. There are probably more advancements that will come down the pike, but to say deleting is the only option for everyone or to say that everyone is having emissions problems on the 6.7 powered truck is bull too. I have 115k miles on my truck and I'm having zero issues with the only emissions component replaced is the DEF heater under warranty.
Is it a PITA to drive the truck, when convenient, to get it to go into regen and get it done? **** YES... but it's the price I'm willing to pay and put up with to drive a wanted not needed 6.7 F350 because I love driving my truck. It's not for everyone, that's for sure, for a daily driver... YMMV.
The people that have the aforementioned problems are the ones who don't get the trucks hot enough and would be better served to have a gasser. But that's their choice to delete or NOT to. Yes, it sucks that they can't drive their 6.7 around town like a F150 but it is what it is. That is why engine component design and emissions technologies will continue to advance to the point that 6.7s will be able to drive around town like an Explorer... you think Ford doesn't want to sell more new 6.7 Super Dutys to people who want them but don't need them and make more $$$ in the process while not having to deal with emissions warranty claims? Americans love trucks and will buy them...
As to your claim that the truck in the video is not loud, that is subjective. I've run across plenty of deleted trucks with 5 inch exhausts, some with a black obnoxious 8 inch tip on the tailpipe, that are loud as hell... because they are obnoxious drivers on the expressway. I run across many fuel rich tuned deleted trucks on the way in to work and back home.
Another thing to point to out here, it's a damn shame for some of you to dismiss a guy who has health issues all because maybe you DON'T have any and because of it, he doesn't agree with the religion of deleting... The guy owned a deleted truck for God's sake... so how about we all take a step back and have the conversation with respect for each other's opinions because like butt holes, we all got 'em.... Have a great day.
Logically I would think that deleting the emissions would increase mpg just for the fact that there are no regens and the truck doesn't have to work as hard. However, I would not recommend spending the money to delete to chase mpg savings.
And I'm not going to make decisions in life based on some guy in Illinois that has COPD. If his claims of having issues with deleted trucks is true then he needs to carry an oxygen tank when going outside as there are other pollutants to worry about. I've choked on transit bus fumes more than I've had issues with trucks in general.
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