I was told by the guys at Grand Prix this morning that there are 5 or 6 places in town with dynos you can pull your truck onto and run it. I mentioned a regular cab F 150 and they recommended a place called Vangs.

 

This place is at 46th and Mingo:Vang's Dyno Performance in Tulsa | Auto Repairs in Tulsa | Vang's Dyno Performance (918) 660-5085 # 9901 E 46th Pl, Tulsa, OK 74146 Yahoo - US Local

There was another called Yangs Dyno performance, but it is on the West side and you dont want to have to go out there.

RWHP (rear wheel horse power) is what its all about. Thats the net and what is actually getting to the road. I dont think anybody should care about the gross. Thats like having a wad of $1 bills with a $100 bill on the outside trying to make the stack look like its more than it is.

 

You really need to load the compression rings to get them to seat.
"taking it easy" on a new engine is not doing it any favors IMO.
NO idling and no lugging, just enough to bring it up to operating temp.
Make a few runs increasing throttle opening and rpm's each time.

Your machine shop is giving you good advice.

If in doubt, check the break-in procedures outlined by your ring supplier.
Tell me if you can do that in such a controlled manner given the vaguery's of traffic on the open road.

Tell me if you will be able to monitor/adjust something as quickly if you are in the cab with the hood down going 50.

 

I don't subscribe to the "take it easy" during engine break in theory. You have to run it in increasingly harder ways to really break it in right. I don't mean tune it close, and go for a WOT romp either. Giving it a little time to build heat, and then running it under a moderate load for short bursts, is the best way to get everything to "wear" into place. Doing this on a dyno has no ill effects, though trying to get it to make full power too quickly *can*.

A large national engine remanufacturer test fires every engine they build on a dyno-like rig. Not to check for power output, but to confirm that it runs correctly before shipping to the end user. They may have as much as a 10% failure rate at the plant, but they have less than 5% failure rate on engines that are shipped out, and most of those can be traced back to something done after it left the plant.

To me, it would seem like peace of mind to have the engine pre-run on a dyno before dropping it in. Not to see what kind of power/torque it can give, but more to know that there isn't something wrong under that shiny paint job. New parts can fail, and used parts can have a hidden flaw (even new parts) that was not caught during inspection.
Besides, this isn't a GM engine that has the dist in the rear, so having the timing already set, and the carb mostly dialed in and ready to bolt back in place will insure a successful first atartup attempt after installation.

 

I agree Jim, as long as that is the reasoning and advice, not just pulls to get HP numbers.

This break in stuff reminded me of a mod I've always wanted to make to a new engine. An oil accumulator, set up to store oil under pressure while the engine is off and release it as the key is turned to the on position. By far the most wear on an engine is during staring in those few seconds before the oil gets pushed around. The goal is to push some oil around before cranking.

It would take an accumulator bottle like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-24-006/overview/ This one is pretty nice and $200 bucks, but I understand a gravity feed one can be made rather easy using an old fire extinguisher. Connected to an electric valve like one of these, depending on setup http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-24-270/overview/ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-24-275/overview/ And a way to connect it to the engine, likely an oil filter adapter.

EDIT
Or something like this http://www.proweldperformanceparts.com/id93.html

Found just the pump on ebay for $399 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TurboWerx-Ex...-/151158790452

 

Bruno - Thanks for that info. But, that's from the Edelbrock expert - right? (Just messing with you.) Seriously, I appreciate the research and will consider the chassis dyno approach.

As for the engine dyno runs, I can see using it as an initial break-in and tuning function. So, I get the recommended timing (initial and centrifugal) from Tim and dial it into the dizzy. And I see if he's got any tuning suggestions for the carb, and he's suggested an Eddy 1806, which is a 650 CFM AVS. If so I'll dial them in as I have the strip kit - at least for a 1406 although the 1806 starts a bit richer. Then we fire it up and go through some pulls watching temp, oil pressure, and AFR as well as torque and Hp. Stop to tweak and let it cool. That would dial in the basic tune a lot easier than on the street. And we wouldn't have to beat it, but it would get the rings seated. Then I can bring it home knowing it'll run w/o a problem.

Lots to think about, especially on something that both costs a lot as well as takes so much time to build. Thanks for the input - but don't stop now.

 

Fire it up and bring it to temp.
Then do some increasing pulls.

Not many places have facility for pre heated water and oil.
Pistons and other components are not at full size cold.

What does ARP say about re (check) torque given that you'll be running aluminum heads?
(studs or bolts???)

 

Might be off topic but I'm kinda excited about that electric oil pump, been looking for something like that for a while. The price is still up there but the benefits are huge if it is as it says. Plumbed in parallel to the normal oil pump and wired via the ignition to an oil pressure switch close to the filter at say 40PSI. And the starter circuit wired inline with a say 20PSI oil pressure switch at the back of the lifter galley it solves lots of wear issues.

So turn the key to on/start, no oil pressure, it pumps to prime the engine, as soon as the oil has gone as far as it needs to go the starter turns. Bing bang boom, no excessive wear at startup. Pump stays ready to go, anytime the oil pressure gets low the electric pump helps out, hot low idle, a stall, etc. As long as there is oil in the pan and a pickup to get at it there is good oil pressure.

IMO a mod like that could get an engine like this easily to 500k miles, likely a lot more.

 

It has probably changed, years ago they used to tell you to do some 30-50 mph hard throttle (under kickdown level for auto, high gear, not OD for manual) runs to properly seat the rings. When I built the T-II engine I was told not to worry about seating the rings, the newer chrome rings don't need seating, but do need a very smooth wall. The T-II does have a little blow-by under boost, but that's to be expected. I will see what Roy Hinton comes up with on the 460 when we build it.

I will want to put mine on a chassis dyno with the new engine so I can do a real good tune on it. Remember, I can change my whole setup in about 10 mins.

 

I really dont think that start ups create much wear on a motor. As soon as the engine starts to turn the oil pump is pumping rather it starts or not. I understand there is compression inside the cylinders as the pistons move up and down , but it takes heat to make steel wear or cut. So in essence you have 2 perfectly smooth surfaces rubbing against each other (piston ring and cylinder wall) for 2 or 3 seconds until the oil starts to run through the motor. The 2 or 3 seconds could be a gross exaggeration too. Also another thing to consider is that fuel will be introduced into the cylinder almost immediately as well and will provide some lubrication.

I dont think it's worth worrying about Brute.

 

Wow! Lots of comments coming in while I'm trying to answer others. But, glad to see the comments, so please keep them coming.

Jim - Good question about retorquing. Here's what Trick Flow says for the SBF heads, which should be the same as the 335 Series, although I haven't found that yet:And, for comparison, here's what AFR says about their aluminum SBF heads:However, here's what ARP says, with bolding added by me. And, I included the whole discussion on bolts vs studs for further discussion:So, it looks to me like I would re-torque while the engine is on the stand after bringing it back to the shop after being run on the dyno. That would be far easier than doing so in the truck.

 

I ran into the issue with the motor having to be pulled in 96 due to the studs. That really sucked.

Sounds like you plan on having it dynoed at the machine shop.

Bill made an excellent point. The engine can be live tuned on a chassis dyno. Then and only then can a guy actually know how much power his set up makes in his truck.

 

Bruno,
Most all bearing wear occurs in the first few seconds of startup.
Without oil pressure there is no 'wedge' supporting the shaft or journal.

Combustion pressure is pretty rough on bearings without any hydraulic cushion.

 

Gotta have them diamond hard valve cover bolts! only reason I could see using those is they look nice.

 

Bruno - I haven't made my mind up at all on the dyno. I still need to understand from the machine shop (STK) how much time I would have to tune the engine. Yesterday Kayla said they would dial in the initial timing, but there's more to it than that, so I need to understand if they do timing only and I watch or if I have time to swap jets if needed.

As for Bill's point about tuning, he does that via a computer and his SEFI. In my case it is not difficult on an Eddy as you know, but still requires pulling the top of the carb. So I'll need to contact the chassis dyno people to understand what they do to get a fair comparison.