Took the block, crank, and piston/rods into the machine shop today. Kayla checked the block and said it needs to go 30 over. The rods will be 20 under and the mains 10 under. Plus, she nor her father like Tim's oiling system mod's and strongly recommend staying with the stock oiling arrangement for street use.

Also, we talked about the dyno pulls. She said they will break the engine in with about 20 minutes of low RPM running and then run it up gently a few times. And then would make 7 or 8 pulls up to whatever limit I want to set, which would probably be either 5500 or 6000. They don't think that shortens the life of the engine in any way as the cam doesn't need break-in and the rings will seat just fine on the honed cylinders. So, what do y'all think? Will break-in on the dyno be hard on it?

Then I called Tim, but had to leave a message, and when he called back I was at dinner so we couldn't talk long. But he did say he won't have the pistons until March 3rd, so I may have to go back to get the block and crank out of their way. Anyway, Tim and I are to talk on Monday morn to nail down the details on the order. Then I'll have to call the machine shop to see what needs to be done with the block and crank.

As for the rods and pistons, Kayla pressed the pistons off the rods and I brought the rods home to clean them up and have them shot peened. Oddly enough, after I handed Kayla the box of rods and pistons and she pressed the pistons off she handed the box with just the rods back in the box and asked if I was ok carrying them. But she'd just seen me pick up the block by myself and set it on her cart, and I'd handed her the box with pistons and rods, so the box w/o pistons was obviously lighter. Do I look that old and frail?

 

What do they consider "low rpm's"?

My understanding is that you need plenty of oil flow and to vary the rpm's in order to break in a cam.
I tend to break in an engine like I just stole it, and I have never wiped cam lobes.
But I don't know your profile, lift or spring pressure either.
I have never built a 335.

 

I don't know the answer to what they consider "low RPM". But the cam shouldn't be an issue as it'll be a roller and, from what I've read. they don't require the break-in treatment a flat-tappet does.

The cam profile should be pretty mild, probably something similar to Comp's HR260. Dual springs, which is pretty standard on rollers I'm told, but nothing unusual at all.

 

I keep forgetting you are putting a roller in your 400.

There shouldn't be any issue.
Once the rings seat that engine is going to be as good as it will ever get.
It will loosen up a little bit, running cooler and revving freer after 1,000-1,500 miles.

 

Ok, so doing the dyno pulls on a new engine isn't an issue.

I've ALWAYS wanted to dyno an engine, and now may be the time. Tim is telling me that 500/500 will be easy with this combo, and the folks at the machine shop agree. So, maybe I should find out.

 

Take some pic's of it on the rig in the dyno room when they do.

 

Gary..Back in the Dark Ages.(60s) when we used to build 283s..and the occasional 312...the guy that ran the machine shop had a sign on the wall..I think now that it was just for us kids..."Break 'em in fast...and they run fast..But..not for long"..Just one of those things you don't forget. And he was right..I traded my red '57 Bel Air..with engine blown.... into the local Chevy/Olds dealer for a gold '60 Impala 2dr.HT...with...6 CYL./3 speed..Was not my first choice..but since Dad was writing the check..and college started that fall..I went with it...Ah..the good 'ol days......

 

Jerry - That made me both laugh and shake my head. I remember the break-in recommendations for my first Super Bee - something about changing RPM until 500 miles, at which point "brief full-throttle accelerations aids break-in". So, when the odo rolled over 500 miles I stopped on the highway back to college and nailed it. Had to lift pretty quickly as it was walking sideways.

 

Roller cam so no worries there. I have always heard that there shouldnt be a problem running the guts out of them shortly after a break in. I have heard all kinds of stuff tat conflicts and compliments that logic.

If you are going to set the engine up on the high side of torque specs then I would not want it dynoed. However, if you are going to set it up loose then it may not be an issue.

I went tight on the Bronco when I built it so I babied the motor for 400-500 miles. Then I started getting a little more heavy on the skinny peddle.

I was always told that tight will last long, but take longer to break in.

 

I'm planning on setting it up within the stock specs. But I don't know if you'd consider that tight or loose.

 

That depends on what fasteners you go with. ARP fasteners allow for different torque specs. I went with the tighter allowances for the lower end. I think we went with stock torque specs whenever we put the heads back on it. I hope maybe we consulted ARP .

W head bolts torque at 85ftlbs where ARP head bolts torque at 100ftlbs.

Factory rod bolts for the W call for 45ftlbs where the ARP wave lock calls for 50. THe main bolts that I bought from ARP gave a range of torque from like 85 to 105ftlbs.

However, factory main caps torque at 105ftlbs and ARP main cap bolts torque at 100ftlbs.

I do recommend the ARP stuff on a motor that is going to be used for a durable application. The info on their website tells a lot about their products vs just plain old run of the mill fasteners. Their nuts and washers are parallel ground for even pulling. Their bolts and studs are made to stretch evenly and keep consistent pressure on whatever they are holding. Generally their fasteners call for more torque than stock specs.

 

All of the dyno runs I have seen on youtube and such are sort of scary. They start them up and just blast em. They run the crap out of them.

Gary, maybe there is a place in town that has a dyno you pull the truck onto and run them that way? That would give you time to break it in the way you want it broke in. The only problem I see with it would be that you wont get an accurate gross HP/TQ, but would have a spot on net HP/TQ. Supposedly a vehicle loses 15% through the drive trane on an auto and more like 10% on a manual.

 

Of course everyone is right about roller not needing the break in a flat does but that doesn't mean it needs no break in. Throwing a bunch of oil around right away for a little while is a good thing all over washing both the cam and cylinder walls in plenty of oil right away.

The single most important aspect of breaking in your engine will be the very first fire. A pro can prime the oil and then set it up to start on the vey first crank within 15 minutes of the prime. Extra time between prime and startup and any extra cranks to get it started are taking thousands of miles of the life of the engine.

To my mind dyno pulls on a new engine are close to pointless, rather dangerous, and only for fun. This is largely cause it's impossible to have the tune correct and new engines run hot. Yes run it hard early, but running it lean, too hot, too rich, knocking etc. can all cause damage and HP numbers are useless until it's tuned and it's not tuned until it's broken in.

If they are good enough to start it right, and do a quick initial tune on the dyno then great, the HP numbers will be a reference point. But the real benefit of a dyno is in the information that can be gathered quickly to get the initial tune, valve adjustment, re-torque etc done.

As for Tims oil mods, they make sense to me, I nor or IIRC the machine shop you took it to are the 351M/400 experts that Tim is, maybe his advice should be strongly considered.

 

I'm going with ARP rod/main/head bolts, inc Wave Lok on the rods. And I have a copy of their 2014 catalog, in PDF, on this iPad. Interesting read, but I think I'll pass on their other stuff as I've not had a dizzy nor valve cover fall off yet.

And, I informed the machine shop of the use of those fasteners so they'll hold off until I get them before doing the rods and mains since the additional torque changes the shape of the rod and main. In fact, as I think about it they'll want to wait on the deck honing as the same is true for the head bolts. (Yes, we looked up the torque specs for ARP head bolts when we put yours together, Bruno.)

Brute - You've said what I've been thinking. Even if Tim tells me exactly how to jet the carb and what timing to dial into the dizzy I can't imagine having everything spot-on for the dyno. Surely this combo of parts, or the air temp, or the air density will mean something is off. If they plan time for carb and dizzy tuning that's one thing. But they would have to have an air/fuel meter on the exhausts in order to know which way to go. And it would be a long process as there would have to be cool-down time between pulls, time for jet changes, etc. I can see that being very useful in setting up an engine. But in reality my goal isn't max power but excellent power coupled with economy. And the latter is something that I'm guessing they don't do. I can see several more questions for them on Monday.

Thanks guys, please keep the thoughts and ideas coming.

 

I also used ARP on the flex plate and the intake manifold.

As for the dyno, if the motor isnt broke in and the rings arent seated then how accurate could the numbers be?