Wow a lot to catch up on here, I'll try and add my 2 cents.

First the manifold temp stuff, there is an aspect of it that I forgot. On the subject of the manifold and thus the carburetor getting too hot. That is most often caused by having an exhaust crossover in an aluminum manifold. Without the exhaust crossover there is no significant source of heat higher then the coolant temp that can heat the manifold.

The torque arm, yeah that pic I posted isn't the best example. I just grabbed a pic off a quick google search to give you some idea of what I was talking about. FWIW the most common use of a torque arm is 80s/90s Camaros, they had them stock. The torque arm only prevents axle wrap, it doesn't prevent movement in any other way. This is great for trucks and most non-track vehicles, this is why I'm a fan. Well that and they are really easy, 4 links, track bars, snubbers, etc are a pain.

Yes the top bolts are in tension during acceleration, and that is a poor design in that pic. How it's attached to the 9" is the easy part however, it just needs to be solid, it's the front that matters. For you and this truck my suggestion would be to grab a sway bar bushing and bolt it to the cross member that the carrier bearing attaches to. Just have a round tube on the end of the torque arm then it just slides in and twists in the bushing. This way the arm can move front to back, and twist, it just can't move up and down in the front. This prevents all axle wrap and completely stabilizes the driveline angles as the torque arm being attached at the carrier bearing is always parallel to the driveline.

(EDIT, if it's a one piece driveline substitute carrier bearing for tranny cross member and tail housing)

I don't like snubbers in anything but a track vehicle and I don't like them with 9" rear ends. There is two reasons for this, first the snubber only works when the rear suspension is bottomed out. As much as ride height and weights vary in a pickup a snubber cannot be relied on. Secondly the 9" has a very short and low pinion/housing. This means it's almost impossible to get a snubber fit/adjusted right to work well.

Distributors, as ArdWrknTrk very correctly said big block stuff works, and the big cap is VERY worth it. It sounds like the only thing your missing in this conversation is one of the most important, the advance. On the DSII dizzy the total amount of centrifugal/rpm advance is set by the size of a slot inside the dizzy.


In this example this one has a 10 slot and a 15 slot, this gives two tuning options, 20 degree advance or a 30 degree advance(twice the number). This slot size is really what you need to shop for, the rest, springs, and adjustable vacuum advance, can be easily changed/tuned. FWIW I haven't caught up on all your engine specs yet but most street performance engines need right about 20 degrees of rpm advance(10L slot) so it can be set at a 16 initial and 36 total(36-16=20). Most emissions years DSII dizzies have too much advance. Maybe someone here has a good catalog or source for info on what dizzies had what slots, I don't have it handy. I'll add though in choosing a slot size it's better to error on the small side. Too little advance is better then too much, and the slot can be filed larger, it can't easily be made smaller.

Except for the slot and some quality control a DSII dizzy is a DSII dizzy and I see no point in using or paying for anything else, they are great distributors. That said I haven't personally done it but I hear great things about swapping to the HEI module instead of the DSII box.

 

I personally am curious about two aspects I haven't seen here now that I'm caught up.

First oiling mods, I hear and read various things about oiling modifications that need to be made to 400 based engines to get them to live.

Second intake manifold, options are rather slim. By my figuring you have two reasonable ways to go. The Edelbrock 2171, not exactly a great manifold. Or spacers and any 351C or 351W manifold, more manifold options but the spacers are a pricey($300) pain in the ****.

AP-29 & AP-30 Intake Adapter Kits - link to Price Motorsports spacer/adapter.

This brings up an issue with the dizzy, if your going to use spacers the large DSII cap will likely not clear without either grinding the manifold or raising the dizzy/cap. The link above to the spacer has a link and little thing about the dizzy and the option of using a 351W dizzy.

I'm sure Tim has worked this out before, but have you asked?

 

You can bush the advance stop pin with some thin brass tubing from a hobby store.
This stuff comes in sizes that telescope, so more than one layer can be added.
Home - K & S Precision Metals: Full Line Metal Specialists

The RHP Duraspark recurve instructions (page 2) lists slot widths and their equivalent in thousandths.
Plus the formula of -desired degrees x 0.013" and add 0.150 for the width of the pin.-
Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_page-2
If you have a welder, Dremel and a caliper you can make whatever you want.

I don't know of any listing of vehicles and what advance plates came in them.
That would be one to bookmark, or save locally!
Scott says to ask for a 1975 Elite with a 4V 460.

What about the Weiand 8010?
It seems to have better runners and a much more solid carb flange than the 2171 Edelbrock. ???

I'm not sure what the ports look like in those Trick Flow 195 Street 62cc heads, but Gary states they seal up with a regular Fel-Pro gasket.

Choices are slim for an engine that hasn't been manufactured in 30 years.

 

Guys - Thanks for the info on the torque arm. I think I'll see how this works with what I have and go from there. But, I'd be thankful for anything you pass on regarding the options.

And, I've set up curves in many distributors, which is why I am comfortable buying the one for $19 off Amazon. If I get nothing more than a clean case and a good fit between the shaft and the bearings (bushings really) then I'll be good to go since I can swap stuff between the several units I have to get what I want. But I do appreciate the reminders about how to limit travel. And I'll certainly run the DS adaptor and larger cap since Ford obviously saw a need for it when they came out with DuraSpark.

Speaking of setting up the dizzy, I just had a thought - both my lathe and mill have specific spindle speeds that easily cover the range to 1500 RPM, which would be 3000 for the crank. So I'm thinking I'll use one of them to set up the curve prior to installing the dizzy. The piece I'm missing, in thought at least, is the easiest way to do the strobe. I guess I could hook up a DS-II box, coil, and spark plug and use the timing light to see the position of the advance vs the stop. Unfortunately I don't have an adjustable timing light that would allow me to see what the timing is. I guess I could rig up some marks on a timing disk, but do you have any thoughts?

On the intake manifold, I have the Eddy Performer and was planning to use it. Hadn't done any thinking about that, but Tim does list the Weiand and not the Eddy in his price list. I guess I should ask him why and see what I'd be giving up by running the one I have.

As for the oiling system, Tim has info here, but this explains what he recommends:

 

I can't speak with any knowledge about a 9" torque arm.
I do understand why you would want the pivot at the same point as the universal joint.

Speak to Bill Vose about workarounds to using a real Sun distributor machine.
Maybe one of your locals has one in their shop?
I would think you would want to watch the advance across the whole speed range.
And this would require a variac in addition to your setup unless your lathe has infinite speed control already.

AFA, Tim,
Heard mention of his slotted bearings.
Better understanding of the bigger picture now.


I see the Fel-Pro 1228's for 4V Cleveland, isn't the 1205 for SBC???
The Trick Flow heads don't seem to have siamesed ports...

 

Well I guess I typed out the timing stuff just to exercise my fingers, lol. All good they need it.

Curving machine, sounds like you have a solid idea of what it would take, I don't think I have any shortcuts for you unless you want to spend the time and bucks tracking down one of the old Sun 503/504 curving machines. Guy I used to work with had a few and bought them every chance he had to get a deal. Now working ones can fetch quite a penny. I personally never found them worth the trouble. We would use one to set up a curve then everything would change once in the vehicle. To me the best distributor machine is the engine it's for.



The Weiand does look like a better manifold, if the ports work out. I missed it in my search cause it doesn't say anything about Cleveland heads. Glad Jim did though it my be a good candidate for when it's my turn to do this. I'll have to use iron(aussie) heads, mine would be to fit a race class. Course for that reason I'd also want a bigger manifold so the performer air gap for the 351C+spacers is likely my best choice, but I'm a year away.

 

Good catch on the intake gaskets. I hadn't checked it out as I'm getting my gaskets from Tim and am sure he'll supply the right ones. But, you are right - the 1205's are Chebby.

My lathe nor mill have variable speeds but the lathe has 11 steps between 300 and 1550 RPM, meaning 600 and 3100 crank R's, so I could get plenty of readings and plot the curve. If I make a timing disk that has the degrees laid out from 0 to maybe 40, which would be 80 on the crank, I could test both centrifugal as well as vacuum advance. The disk would slip on the shaft between the gear and the chuck, and be secured either by a set screw or by just pressure between the gear and the chuck.

What isn't easy to see in this picture is that the dizzy has a boss in the side that fits nicely against the cutting tool for a stop. And the backside of the cutting tool could serve as the timing pointer against a timing wheel. So add a DS-II box, coil, and one spark plug, plus the battery that's sitting on a trickle charger and the timing light and I should have an accurate way to check the timing curve of a dizzy. Right?

 

Did you think I (or we) were ignoring what you mentioned about ignition timing?

I was trying to point out to Gary that this is not a race engine always run at WFO and redline.
(in fact, if it really does make 500/500, I doubt he will be able to ever open it up given his vehicle and tires)

So spring combinations and how the spring stops are bent for tension will affect the whole of the curve.
It's not just about limits, and it all has to work with his combo.
Carb, intake, heads, cam, cam timing, headers, will all effect this and in his case -especially- he needs it to be smooth and progressive.

Trying to plot a bunch of points on some jury rigged equipment might not lead to the most accurate data.
But Gary likes to do it himself, and puzzle out a solution.
Then provide the much revered 'Eight Page Micro Analysis™'

The "Dad's Truck" thread is well over 300 pages and there is NO engine or paint yet!
That thread has provided many of us with insight and entertainment.
(as I'm sure this one will)

 

BruteFord - I/we were not ignoring it, as Jim said. And I do appreciate your input as well as the work it took to type that and insert the pictures.

Jim - You are right that the power has to be smooth and, as I think about it, that may suggest the AVS carb instead of the AFB as the secondary opening is adjustable on the AVS. Don't want it coming in too abruptly, for sure.

As for the ignition, here are the engine RPM's I can check: 600; 640; 860; 1050; 1400; 1500; 1780; 1900; 2300; 2400; 3100. As you can see, they aren't laid out evenly across the range. And, when it starts coming in will limit the # of useful R's as well. So, if the advance starts coming in at 1050 I'll only have 8 data points - which I think is enough. It is my understanding that we are dealing with two curves - one for each weight/spring pair. Together they give the overall curve for the ignition. Right?

Considering the 300 page thread, it is not quite accurate to say the truck has no engine or paint. It has had one engine change during the life of that thread and it was driven to Delaware and back to OK with nary a problem. And several parts were painted by the first paint/body man, but the new one is having to redo all that. So, we have taken several steps forward over the 300 pages, but we usually then take an equal number of steps backward.

 

I'm sorry Gary.
I should have said the engine and paint are not -close to finished- yet.

You do have the chassis sorted out. (mostly)
And the upholstery done. (correctly)

In all, you have touched every nut and bolt on this vehicle. (multiple times!)
No one is going to discount your devotion and passion to this project.
I am in awe.

But this is your engine thread.
So, back to the subject at hand.

 

I'll be the first to admit my ignorance of the design differences between the four barrel and air valve secondary Carter carbs.

What makes the AVS more controlled?
Does the AFB tend to 'hit hard', like a Holley with the wrong spring?

Can you discuss the subtleties that would make you chose one over the other?

 

Just giving you a hard time - for giving me a hard time. Yes, I've touched each nut and bolt several times and most of them still have to be powder coated.

But, back to the engine. I've asked Bill to come to the party re ignition to see what he thinks about my DIY dizzy curving idea. And, I've taken the DS-II dizzy apart out of the $40 engine. As you can see below, the slots are quite wide, so will need modified - if I use this advance mechanism. But I'll soon have several as the new dizzy is due Saturday, so we'll see how it is set up. I can mix and match until I get what I need.

 

Wow!
32 or 42 degrees of centrifugal advance.
I don't see how that could ever work without EGR.

Looks like one heavy, and one medium spring.
I think the Crane vacuum advance comes with springs.
(or you could always buy the Mr.Gasket set! )

 

AFB is Aluminum Four Barrel, while AVS is Air Valve Secondary. The AFB has a weight that keeps the secondary air valve shut while the AVS uses a coiled spring on which you can adjust the tension. So on the AFB you have to grind the weight to get it to come on more quickly - and then cry when you went too far. But the AVS is easy as you use a screwdriver to hold the spring where it is, loosen the Allen set screw, and then dial in a bit more or less spring tension.

And the spring tension seems more linear. Or maybe I should say the weight is non-linear as when it starts moving the lever arm becomes less than horizontal and there's less force holding it shut. But with the AVS it is a slightly progressive tension as the spring winds up a bit tighter and the opening is less sudden.

The Carb Doctor has a further discussion of them. And it reminded me of my youth - my first car was a '58 Chevy 348 w/a WCFB. Good old Will had a way of naming his carbs that made them much more memorable than 4160 or 4180.

And, by the way, that type of air valve was also used on the Thermoquad and the QuadraJet. Easy to tune the opening point on the secondary. And they also used the same approach to tuning swap the rods easily, and swap the jets if needed w/o dumping the fuel. These were the carbs of my youth.

 

LOL! I'll go looking for that Mr. Gasket stuff. Just what I need.

Yes, that's waaaaay too much advance, so limitation will be the plan. Should be pretty easy to calculate the degrees per .010. The 21 degree slot measures .640", and the 16 degree slot is .540". That gives 33 degrees/inch on the 21 and 30 degrees/inch on the 16. So the measuring isn't precise, but that says that a 10 degree slot should be about 1/2".