Progress ... hanging sheetmetal!!
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
Are new wheel cylinders not available? I have never been a proponent of rebuilding wheel cylinders. Often leaking cylinders allow moisture to accumulate, rusting and pitting the bores. First the rebuilder may remove the cylinders to the bench or do a slip shod job and rebuild them in place to avoid having to remove the lines. A hand operated drill driven hone is used to clean up the bores. First, the hone stones are likely used without being dressed (cleaned of residue and glazing) or changed. They may even be chipped or contaminated with dirt and grit from being dropped on the floor or laid on the workbench. Second that type hone is not really meant to be used for removing rust or pits, it is only supposed to be used to break any glazing and leave a light hone pattern in the cylinder to aid the seating of the seal cups. When the hone is over used, the bore can end up tapered or more commonly, hourglassed and/or oversized. Grit from the honing can be packed into the bore for the fluid where it can remain even if given a quick flush. The bore is given only a cursory inspection and never accurately measured. Any of these issues usually result in a cylinder that leaks or hangs up soon after the rebuild. Rebuilding cylinders altho inexpensive, IMHO is poor economy.
Tuned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 486
Likes: 97
From: HAMDEN, CT
A very discouraging day today. I really hate FORD brakes. This morning I jacked up the truck. The left wheel turned ok forward, not so good going backward and the right wheel was stuck. I started the truck up, put it in gear and let the clutch out slowly. Gerald was watching and said the right wheel didn't turn ( found out its not a posi) We pulled the wheel and when we turned the drum it seemed like it started hanging up and we heard a squeeling noise from the hub. We thought it might be a binding wheel bearing although I had new wheel bearings installed. We then pulled the right drum and axle and the hub spinned freely with no noise so that ruled out the wheel bearings. We put the axle back in and we again we heard the noise which we thought was coming from the differental until I got on my creeper and felt that the noise was comming from the left drum. I forgot to mention when I pulled off the RT drum we noticed the bottom wheel cylinder was wet(white post restorations has already rebuilt it twice). The brake shoes showed signs of irregular wear. We put the RT axle back in and bolted it on. I this point I called Chuck from Chuck's Trucks for advice. He thought the problems were not properly installed shoes and that the brakes were not adjusted right. He recommended pulling the brakes all apart, clean, lube reinstall and adjust them.
So we pulled off the LT wheels and were using a impact driver to remove the 4 brake drum screws when we broke our slot socket ( 2 were removed)
I went to 4 different tool supply store and no one had a big enough socket. I was able to pick up a BUDD wheel socket for removing the inner & outer lugs. I just am so disgusted with the brake system. I am going to try one more tool company in the morning and hopefully they will have what I need. I also plan on having my drums turned and they are warped somewhat. I have 25 days to get everything fixed before the parade.
On a positive note I now have 2 working horns. My small one was broken and I was able to just buy the guts on eBay. Gerald swapped them in my original horn.
So we pulled off the LT wheels and were using a impact driver to remove the 4 brake drum screws when we broke our slot socket ( 2 were removed)
I went to 4 different tool supply store and no one had a big enough socket. I was able to pick up a BUDD wheel socket for removing the inner & outer lugs. I just am so disgusted with the brake system. I am going to try one more tool company in the morning and hopefully they will have what I need. I also plan on having my drums turned and they are warped somewhat. I have 25 days to get everything fixed before the parade.
On a positive note I now have 2 working horns. My small one was broken and I was able to just buy the guts on eBay. Gerald swapped them in my original horn.
Use a punch and a hammer to get the screws out! Just put the point of the punch at the edge of the slot, and give it a whack. Then you can just use a big screwdriver to get them out, and put them back in after. I usually put new ones in if the old ones get chewed up, but you don't have to.
Chuck
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 13
Axracer - My cylinders were sleeved.
Bobby we will get it straightened out!!
Chuck - I found a mobile Matco dealer and swapped out my socket. We were able to get the other screws out and pull the drum. I had a hard time finding someone who could turn the drums. I finally located someone in Miami and will have then turned in the morning. Chuck is there a special brake shoe spring removal tool? I am concerned about removing those u shaped springs without breaking one.
Bobby we will get it straightened out!!
Chuck - I found a mobile Matco dealer and swapped out my socket. We were able to get the other screws out and pull the drum. I had a hard time finding someone who could turn the drums. I finally located someone in Miami and will have then turned in the morning. Chuck is there a special brake shoe spring removal tool? I am concerned about removing those u shaped springs without breaking one.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 13
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Rio Rancho, NM
Bobby
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 433
Likes: 4
From: Breckenridge, Minn.
You can get that same grain material and similar color if your intent is to keep it original. I have a supplier in the Twin Cities. The rubberized hair is not available at this time. The springs can be replaced if necessary and the burlap covering over the springs is there as well. I helped with the refurbishment of an old International Fire Truck two years ago. They can give you a great feeling of accomplishment when done. It was an open cab with the auto body seat with diamond tuck. Lots of time and knots to be tied. Love seeing your work. Wood Working is one of my sanity hobbies.
Gear Up
Gear Up
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 13
Thanks Guys. Its just very frustrating dealing with the brakes. I went to a few brake shops that work on big trucks and they all said the same thing. They need the hubs to be able to turn the drums. Not what I wanted to hear but something I will have to do. We are going to pull one tomorrow so I can get the drums turned and the brakes together again. The parade is 3 weeks away!! Gear Up I didn't know the springs were covered. Is this on International Trucks only? I never heard of springs being covered before. That seems like it could interfere with their movement.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 433
Likes: 4
From: Breckenridge, Minn.
Depending on how old and what type of seat, the springs can be fastened many different ways. I have seen where they are individually pocketed in cotton in sets of three or four and set in rows and then hog ringed together. They can have edge wire with steel clips connecting them or the old seats can have edge wire around the entire outer edge and then everything has hemp twine linking the spring together with an eight way tie. Or there may be a combination of the above. I generally use two layers of burlap to help obsorb the load. Now days the rubberized hair is not available so I use what is called bun skins(the skin of a bun of foam when manufactured) on top of the burlap because it is really durable.
Looked at the picures from the other day and I can't tell what is on the inside of the seats. My guess is that you will find rubberized or packed horse hair, cotton, and all that on burlap over the springs. Good luck
Gear Up
Looked at the picures from the other day and I can't tell what is on the inside of the seats. My guess is that you will find rubberized or packed horse hair, cotton, and all that on burlap over the springs. Good luck
Gear Up
