Gas vs PSD
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 4
From: Rogue River, Oregon
For the life of me, I will never understand why some people think an engine must be weak because it makes it's power higher in the rpm range. Look at it this way: a modern Top Fuel dragster needs to rev to about 9,000, do you think THEY are weak? I know, your 7.3 diesel would really put a hurtin' on one if they'd just let you run it...
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
For the life of me, I will never understand why some people think an engine must be weak because it makes it's power higher in the rpm range. Look at it this way: a modern Top Fuel dragster needs to rev to about 9,000, do you think THEY are weak? I know, your 7.3 diesel would really put a hurtin' on one if they'd just let you run it...
You want to give it a try and tow 10,000 lb trailer with it?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
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From: Spokane, WA
Fact is, for pulling, every test we have done has the PSD outpulling the V10. PSD gets more mileage. PSD costs more upfront and costs more to maintain, though is worth more when trading in. You get what you pay for.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
I thought that is what the diesel power mag article was about, PSD and V10 on same dyno... But people still argue that. LOL
Fact is, for pulling, every test we have done has the PSD outpulling the V10. PSD gets more mileage. PSD costs more upfront and costs more to maintain, though is worth more when trading in. You get what you pay for.
Fact is, for pulling, every test we have done has the PSD outpulling the V10. PSD gets more mileage. PSD costs more upfront and costs more to maintain, though is worth more when trading in. You get what you pay for.
I'm on the diesel side here, so no need to try to convince me which is the better towing engine. By "better" I don't mean faster though.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
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From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
But it doesn't. Your 6.4L makes more power throughout it's RPM band than a 5.4L would at similar RPMs. But your 6.4L won't spin to 5,000 RPMs. The 6.4L peaks out at 50 HP less than the 5.4L peaks at.
Are you really going to argue against SAE certified specs?
Why is everyone so hung up on exact numbers between different dynos? This has been discussed over and over on multiple forums. Different dynamometers are going to come up with different figures on identical trucks. This is a fact. Dynos are very useful to compare the DIFFERENCE in power between certain configurations as long as they are measured on the same dyno.
Comparing power or torque figures between two different dynos is pointless.
Are you really going to argue against SAE certified specs?
Why is everyone so hung up on exact numbers between different dynos? This has been discussed over and over on multiple forums. Different dynamometers are going to come up with different figures on identical trucks. This is a fact. Dynos are very useful to compare the DIFFERENCE in power between certain configurations as long as they are measured on the same dyno.
Comparing power or torque figures between two different dynos is pointless.
I just hauled 3yds of fill dirt in the bed of my truck, which overloaded it by far, I know...It was 3000lbs, and I couldn't tell it was back there.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
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From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
haha...The CHARGERS!!! will win the SB one of these days...I was up all night. I do side work, and it's amazing how many people wait until the middle of the night to call and say their A/C doesn't work when it's 80 degrees at midnight. Made $2500.00 after parts for the night, so I'm not complaining.
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
A 5.4 could do that without breaking a sweat.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
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From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
For the life of me, I will never understand why some people think an engine must be weak because it makes it's power higher in the rpm range. Look at it this way: a modern Top Fuel dragster needs to rev to about 9,000, do you think THEY are weak? I know, your 7.3 diesel would really put a hurtin' on one if they'd just let you run it...
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
Torque is defined as the amount of force to make an object rotate. Let's see, the crank in the engine rotates, the xmsn rotates, and the wheels rotate. HP is good when low torque is needed, and if the torque is LOW, to pull up a hill. That said, let's see the rwt figures for a V10. It doesn't have any. It's relying on HP to do that hill, while presenting symptoms of tachycardia.
I just hauled 3yds of fill dirt in the bed of my truck, which overloaded it by far, I know...It was 3000lbs, and I couldn't tell it was back there.
I just hauled 3yds of fill dirt in the bed of my truck, which overloaded it by far, I know...It was 3000lbs, and I couldn't tell it was back there.
There is no torque without horsepower unless it's at 0 RPMs. Torque is the rotational force without respect to RPMs, whereas horsepower is torque at speed.
Low end torque = low end horsepower. Torque is the twisting force, horsepower is what that force means. I think what confuses some people is how peak numbers are normally what is referenced when comparing engines. Turbodiesels really shine with a trailer because of the immense amount of horsepower available all through the usable RPM range. Which isn't to say that the gas engine can't pull just as hard, just that the gas engine has a narrower window in it's RPM range to do it.
The 3V V10 is a great example. From 4-5,000 RPMs it can pull in a comparable manner to our PSDs between 2-3,000 RPMs. The difference is that we're talking about 1/3rd of the PSDs rev range as opposed to 1/5th of the V10s rev range to achieve comparable power output.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Mine didn't warm up...it sucked. I had to drive it around for a bit to get the engine up to temp.
P.S. You're full of crap. My F150 knew it when I had 800lbs in the back of it...with a 5.4
P.S. You're full of crap. My F150 knew it when I had 800lbs in the back of it...with a 5.4
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
This is neat, we've probably hit this HP compared to torque argument at least a dozen times in this thread.
There is no torque without horsepower unless it's at 0 RPMs. Torque is the rotational force without respect to RPMs, whereas horsepower is torque at speed.
Low end torque = low end horsepower. Torque is the twisting force, horsepower is what that force means. I think what confuses some people is how peak numbers are normally what is referenced when comparing engines. Turbodiesels really shine with a trailer because of the immense amount of horsepower available all through the usable RPM range. Which isn't to say that the gas engine can't pull just as hard, just that the gas engine has a narrower window in it's RPM range to do it.
The 3V V10 is a great example. From 4-5,000 RPMs it can pull in a comparable manner to our PSDs between 2-3,000 RPMs. The difference is that we're talking about 1/3rd of the PSDs rev range as opposed to 1/5th of the V10s rev range to achieve comparable power output.
There is no torque without horsepower unless it's at 0 RPMs. Torque is the rotational force without respect to RPMs, whereas horsepower is torque at speed.
Low end torque = low end horsepower. Torque is the twisting force, horsepower is what that force means. I think what confuses some people is how peak numbers are normally what is referenced when comparing engines. Turbodiesels really shine with a trailer because of the immense amount of horsepower available all through the usable RPM range. Which isn't to say that the gas engine can't pull just as hard, just that the gas engine has a narrower window in it's RPM range to do it.
The 3V V10 is a great example. From 4-5,000 RPMs it can pull in a comparable manner to our PSDs between 2-3,000 RPMs. The difference is that we're talking about 1/3rd of the PSDs rev range as opposed to 1/5th of the V10s rev range to achieve comparable power output.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
I didn't look at the diesel power numbers. I was just referring to Bill and the other guy talking about the dyno numbers on the v10 and 6.2. They were ran on two totally different types of dynos, so not really relevant in a comparison of hp numbers.
I'm on the diesel side here, so no need to try to convince me which is the better towing engine. By "better" I don't mean faster though.
I'm on the diesel side here, so no need to try to convince me which is the better towing engine. By "better" I don't mean faster though.
I am curious though why all these show greater HP loss on the V10 at the rear wheel.