Gas vs PSD
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
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From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
I don't have a dyno for those two, but you can get a ballpark figure by doing some calculations on your own based on ford's numbers. Comparing MY obs 7.3 to the 3v v10, they are pretty much equal up to 3k rpm. Then the 3v 10 makes more tq and hp from 3k rpm to 5k rpm than my 7.3 does at any rpm. My 7.3 is 225 hp at 3k rpm and 425 lbs of tq at 2k rpm. The v10 is 362 hp at 4750 rpm and 457 tq at 3250 rpm.
Ford claims 80% of torque for the modulars at 1k rpm. That would be 457x80%=365. I would assume about 90% at 2k and 100% at 3250. That would put it at 411 at 2k rpm. Using those numbers, the v10 would be 15 tq behind my 7.3 at 2k rpm. At 2k rpm the v10 hp would be 157 and my 7.3 would be 162.
Using the 3250 rpm and 457 tq for the v10 I would estimate it to have 445 at 3k rpm. That would be 254 hp at 3k rpm for the v10 compared to 225 at 3k rpm for my 7.3. If we were cruising at 60 mph (2k rpm) my 7.3 would maintain speed slightly better than the v10, but wouldn't come close to it if it became a race up the hill.
Ford claims 80% of torque for the modulars at 1k rpm. That would be 457x80%=365. I would assume about 90% at 2k and 100% at 3250. That would put it at 411 at 2k rpm. Using those numbers, the v10 would be 15 tq behind my 7.3 at 2k rpm. At 2k rpm the v10 hp would be 157 and my 7.3 would be 162.
Using the 3250 rpm and 457 tq for the v10 I would estimate it to have 445 at 3k rpm. That would be 254 hp at 3k rpm for the v10 compared to 225 at 3k rpm for my 7.3. If we were cruising at 60 mph (2k rpm) my 7.3 would maintain speed slightly better than the v10, but wouldn't come close to it if it became a race up the hill.
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
The diffrence is bigger than you would think.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
Here is my dyno sheet back when I had stock injectors and a stock turbo. Just tooning, intake, exhaust. Remember, this is REAR WHEEL power, not FLYWHEEL power. Add 15-20% for FW numbers. Compare tuned for tuned, then let me know where y'all are at. Comparing motors choked down by crappy stock tuning doesn't interest me.
(last time I checked I have a 7.3 in my garage too, so I am on the same side as you in this argument). We compared tuned vs tuned about 40 pages back and even the v10 guys agreed that the psd is easier and cheaper to modify, so that's not really up for debate. However, there is a guy in the v10 section with over 700 rwhp on a daily driving truck. His dyno sheet looks pretty good too......
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
How big is the diffrence towing? I am thinking of going to PI heads at some point.
Not to many of them made, was it manual 4x4? If so then that is the truck I wish I had!
Not to many of them made, was it manual 4x4? If so then that is the truck I wish I had!
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
Yep. Manual 4x4 too. I wasn't a fan of the color(the darker gray), but I'm generally indifferent towards color unless it's something I really like.
I'm not sure who the guy is that has the v10 I was talking about, but I'm sure you could find him pretty easily just by asking around in the v10 forum. He has something like 697 rwhp and I'm not sure on the tq.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Last time I checked I wasn't comparing my truck to yours, so this dyno sheet doesn't interest me either (last time I checked I have a 7.3 in my garage too, so I am on the same side as you in this argument).
We compared tuned vs tuned about 40 pages back and even the v10 guys agreed that the psd is easier and cheaper to modify, so that's not really up for debate. However, there is a guy in the v10 section with over 700 rwhp on a daily driving truck. His dyno sheet looks pretty good too......
(last time I checked I have a 7.3 in my garage too, so I am on the same side as you in this argument). We compared tuned vs tuned about 40 pages back and even the v10 guys agreed that the psd is easier and cheaper to modify, so that's not really up for debate. However, there is a guy in the v10 section with over 700 rwhp on a daily driving truck. His dyno sheet looks pretty good too......
But you were comparing V10 to PSD dyno numbers, so I figured I'd post mine to add a little to the mix.Yeah, and there's a 7.3L making 1700+ HP. There are extreme, cost is no object mod'ed engines, and then there are the normal & reasonable mods, which is what I'm talking about.
I drive my truck quite a bit -- it's not high mileage, but it doesn't sit, either. I bought it about 3 years ago almost to the day for 21k, and even after spending what I have for mods, it's way cheaper than a new truck, makes more power than a tuned 6.0L, and almost as much as a tuned 6.4L. It's a very valid point to remember -- the "old, antiquated, 7.3L" can be updated a little here & there and surprise folks...
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
Sorry, I'm not going back 40 pages. But you were comparing V10 to PSD dyno numbers, so I figured I'd post mine to add a little to the mix.
Yeah, and there's a 7.3L making 1700+ HP. There are extreme, cost is no object mod'ed engines, and then there are the normal & reasonable mods, which is what I'm talking about.
I drive my truck quite a bit -- it's not high mileage, but it doesn't sit, either. I bought it about 3 years ago almost to the day for 21k, and even after spending what I have for mods, it's way cheaper than a new truck, makes more power than a tuned 6.0L, and almost as much as a tuned 6.4L. It's a very valid point to remember -- the "old, antiquated, 7.3L" can be updated a little here & there and surprise folks...
But you were comparing V10 to PSD dyno numbers, so I figured I'd post mine to add a little to the mix.Yeah, and there's a 7.3L making 1700+ HP. There are extreme, cost is no object mod'ed engines, and then there are the normal & reasonable mods, which is what I'm talking about.
I drive my truck quite a bit -- it's not high mileage, but it doesn't sit, either. I bought it about 3 years ago almost to the day for 21k, and even after spending what I have for mods, it's way cheaper than a new truck, makes more power than a tuned 6.0L, and almost as much as a tuned 6.4L. It's a very valid point to remember -- the "old, antiquated, 7.3L" can be updated a little here & there and surprise folks...
Bill was asking about what the dyno looked like for a stock truck, so I was just giving some info on how he could get a ballpark figure for it. Neither of us were bragging about those numbers, just saying what they were.
The reason we haven't really talked modded engines is because once you start modding one you are only limited by your checkbook, not the engine itself. We discussed all that back when we were talking modded engines, but I can't blame you for not wanting to read back that far. The last 50 pages have mostly been about 4 or 5 of us just shooting the breeze(guns, hunting, momma jokes, etc).
I'm with you 100% on the 7.3. That's why there is one sitting in my garage. I would take a 7.3 over a 6.0 or 6.4 any day of the week based on what I use mine for.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Agreed. But intake, exhaust, gauges, trans mod, and tuning (~$900-$1500 depending on your choices), and you have 310+rwhp/650+rwtq. Or ~360/750 at the flywheel. That's a big difference. If you drop an extra $1000 on injectors, now you have 420/820 at the flywheel and the ability to get well over 20mpg. I just had a run a couple months ago where I made ~22.1, hand calculated with the below mods. Not bad, IMHO.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
That's not bad at all. The best I have gotten out of mine is in the 22-23 mpg range with an average around 21 mpg's. That is on a bone stock 97 psd running 65-70 mph. My biggest concern with modding mine is losing mpg's because I get paid mileage with my job. I need to stay around 20 mpg's to make it worth it to take my own truck.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
For the record, Bill, have you towed with a 5.4?
As much as you like your 10 cylinders, that 5.4 does a great job at what it's designed to do. A 3V 5.4L F150 has more power than you do. A bit less low end torque, but the disparity isn't as much as you think.
The first time a few of us met in Millersburg, OH we had an FTE member bring his '06 F150 with the 5.4L V8. Even with the "crappy" 4-speed auto and 3.73 gearing that 5.4L engine got a 10,000 lb trailer moving up a 15 percent grade from a dead stop. There were also 4 of us in the cab at the time.
The difference in low end torque between the 3V and 2V engines isn't that great, so an older generation 5.4 would have done the same thing.
I'm not trying to say that the V10 isn't a better towing motor, just that the 5.4L is a fine motor for an SD truck. If you simply needed a heavy duty pickup for the increased payload instead of hauling 15,000 lbs, the 5.4L V8 would do quite nicely.
As much as you like your 10 cylinders, that 5.4 does a great job at what it's designed to do. A 3V 5.4L F150 has more power than you do. A bit less low end torque, but the disparity isn't as much as you think.
The first time a few of us met in Millersburg, OH we had an FTE member bring his '06 F150 with the 5.4L V8. Even with the "crappy" 4-speed auto and 3.73 gearing that 5.4L engine got a 10,000 lb trailer moving up a 15 percent grade from a dead stop. There were also 4 of us in the cab at the time.
The difference in low end torque between the 3V and 2V engines isn't that great, so an older generation 5.4 would have done the same thing.
I'm not trying to say that the V10 isn't a better towing motor, just that the 5.4L is a fine motor for an SD truck. If you simply needed a heavy duty pickup for the increased payload instead of hauling 15,000 lbs, the 5.4L V8 would do quite nicely.
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
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From: Texas
Yes, an F250 with the PI 2V 5.4, 3.73s and 4R100.
Towed a 18' enclosed trailer with it.
It was slower with the empty 2K trailer than my V10 with 6K behind it.
At its peak HP it was the same, but I felt like I could barly hold speed on the highway with out kicking down to second to hold it at the peak.
It also felt like the power fell off faster after the peak.
The next day I used the V10 and it had no problem keeping up with traffic and holding 70-75 in third gear.
Of course, there may have been something wrong with the 5.4 I drove.
Towed a 18' enclosed trailer with it.
It was slower with the empty 2K trailer than my V10 with 6K behind it.
At its peak HP it was the same, but I felt like I could barly hold speed on the highway with out kicking down to second to hold it at the peak.
It also felt like the power fell off faster after the peak.
The next day I used the V10 and it had no problem keeping up with traffic and holding 70-75 in third gear.
Of course, there may have been something wrong with the 5.4 I drove.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
I doubt there was something wrong, that's about right.
Were both the 2K and 6K trailers enclosed? If not the enclosed trailer is at a disadvantage even though it's lighter. Believe it or not my '07 5.4L F150 had an easier time with a 6,000 lb loaded open car hauler than with a 3,000 lb camper. Wind resistance is a HUGE thing when towing on the highway!
My 5.4L would pull my 8.5 x 24' enclosed trailer while loaded to 9,500 lbs. It would pull it in 3rd gear on the freeway on level ground but needed 2nd gear at that weight to maintain speed on a hill. Empty it still needed to be in 3rd gear but would pull minor hills in 3rd as well.
For sure the V10 will have more power across the powerband than an equivalent generation 5.4, but the 5.4 is still a capable motor. Especially the 300 HP 3V one!
Were both the 2K and 6K trailers enclosed? If not the enclosed trailer is at a disadvantage even though it's lighter. Believe it or not my '07 5.4L F150 had an easier time with a 6,000 lb loaded open car hauler than with a 3,000 lb camper. Wind resistance is a HUGE thing when towing on the highway!
My 5.4L would pull my 8.5 x 24' enclosed trailer while loaded to 9,500 lbs. It would pull it in 3rd gear on the freeway on level ground but needed 2nd gear at that weight to maintain speed on a hill. Empty it still needed to be in 3rd gear but would pull minor hills in 3rd as well.
For sure the V10 will have more power across the powerband than an equivalent generation 5.4, but the 5.4 is still a capable motor. Especially the 300 HP 3V one!
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Melbourne, Aus
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(and I would be willing to bet they have a lot less $$$ into the motor than a 1700hp 7.3
)I would also contend that if you add the initial price differential for a diesel (about 7k now days), a gas truck will ($ for $) outrun a diesel truck.
Last edited by BigF350; Feb 1, 2010 at 06:53 PM.