Gas vs PSD
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
Ok, now I have heard it all. In another thread a modular owner is now bragging about being able to turn 10k rpms on bone stock engines. Outpull a freightliner, last longer than a diesel, turn 10k rpm without the need for solid lifters.....What's next? 5.4 powered fighter jets? V10 locomotives? 4.6 powered cruise ships? The possibilities are endless lol.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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I think the whole bit with navi was just ford trying to place blame on someone other than themselves. There were never any problems with the 6.9, 7.3 IDI, or the 7.3 psd and navi never had any problems with the 6.0 in any of their applications. When my cousin had to get his 03 6.0 bought back Ford told him the main problem with it was in the programming and that they were 100% responsible. That was in 2003. Once they saw how big the problem was they tried to blame navi for it. I don't blame navi for not wanting to pay for fixes to an engine that they didn't have the first problem with in their own vehicles.
Are you complimenting the 7.3 or are you saying your cousins 05 7.3 had those problems? There wasn't an 05 7.3, but I'm not sure if those are supposed to be periods or commas. Not busting your chops over punctuation, just seriously asking.
I'm not saying the 6.0 is the most reliable of the diesels. Not by a long shot. But it's not like they all have problems. The problems with it are easily fixed(although I don't agree with having to buy a 50k dollar truck and then take it home and "fix" it once the warranty runs out). If my memory is correct, around 80% of super dutys came with a diesel. With there being 80% more of them on the road, I would expect to see 80% more having problems. If you see 8 6.0's on a trailer and 2 v10's, that's an even representation percentage wise.
I had an 86 van with a 5.0 in it. It was bone stock and had less than 60k miles on it and it blew a head gasket just driving down the road. That would be pathetic too, but it never stopped me from buying another 5.0.
Also, my next door neighbor has had his 6.0 in the shop about 10 times ever since he bought it and it only has 30k miles on it. None of it was engine related though(clutch, 4 wheel drive, wheel bearings,etc). The 3 you saw may have been engine related and they may not have been.
Are you complimenting the 7.3 or are you saying your cousins 05 7.3 had those problems? There wasn't an 05 7.3, but I'm not sure if those are supposed to be periods or commas. Not busting your chops over punctuation, just seriously asking.
I'm not saying the 6.0 is the most reliable of the diesels. Not by a long shot. But it's not like they all have problems. The problems with it are easily fixed(although I don't agree with having to buy a 50k dollar truck and then take it home and "fix" it once the warranty runs out). If my memory is correct, around 80% of super dutys came with a diesel. With there being 80% more of them on the road, I would expect to see 80% more having problems. If you see 8 6.0's on a trailer and 2 v10's, that's an even representation percentage wise.
I had an 86 van with a 5.0 in it. It was bone stock and had less than 60k miles on it and it blew a head gasket just driving down the road. That would be pathetic too, but it never stopped me from buying another 5.0.
Also, my next door neighbor has had his 6.0 in the shop about 10 times ever since he bought it and it only has 30k miles on it. None of it was engine related though(clutch, 4 wheel drive, wheel bearings,etc). The 3 you saw may have been engine related and they may not have been.
regarding the HG, apparently the diesels are bullet proof, and run for a million miles, and it is a 4 to 8k option, you just would not expect for the mighty diesel to blow an HG when unladen, that's all.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
sorry about that, your are correct, the post did not read very well. that was a compliment on the 7.3, and the following statements were on the 6oh, i am aware that the 7.3 only went until early 03
regarding the HG, apparently the diesels are bullet proof, and run for a million miles, and it is a 4 to 8k option, you just would not expect for the mighty diesel to blow an HG when unladen, that's all.
regarding the HG, apparently the diesels are bullet proof, and run for a million miles, and it is a 4 to 8k option, you just would not expect for the mighty diesel to blow an HG when unladen, that's all.
My problem with the 6.0 is that I shouldn't have to buy a brand new truck and take it home and do thousands of dollars worth of work to it to keep it from breaking down. With the modular, I shouldn't have to carry around a time cert to fix a blown plug. When I put plugs in an engine, I expect them to stay there until I take them out. Stuff is going to break from time to time and I expect that, but when an engine has the same thing go wrong over and over again for thousands of people I find that unacceptable.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
Actually, Bill was the one that told the guy he was wrong lol. The guy also pulls 10k with his 5.4 in the mountains while holding it at the rev limiter and gets better mpg's than a v10 unloaded.
10K? I have a chipped 4.6 and I have never gone over 7100 RPM. ( I did it one time only, friend bet 10 bucks the motor would grenade if I wound it up like he does his civic)
You ever actually try 10,000 rpm out of a stock motor?
I have seen race cars made for that lose motors at lower revs...
You ever actually try 10,000 rpm out of a stock motor?
I have seen race cars made for that lose motors at lower revs...
In another world I built race engines, seeing many times a box stock small block chebby engine hit 9K with a lot of valve float without any damage, I am sure the 4.6 or the 5.4 3 valve engines are capable of 7K all day long without any damage. I know my 09 5.4L pulls 10K# all day long and never ever complains and still gets 13 MPG doing it lol. In the mountains i have run rite against the rev limiter in lower gears.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
As far as head bolts..... If ford had "built" the engine to the recommended power ratings from international there wouldn't have been any problems. From the research I have done, International designed the 6.0 to have about the same hp and tq as the 7.3, but ford said it wouldn't compete with the duramax and cummins that had higher numbers. So they used parts interational didn't recommend, bumped the power up above what international said it would handle, etc. It would have ran fine in stock form, but once you started modding it it would have had the same problems it has now. Once you start modding it though, it's no longer under warranty and no warranty claims for ford to worry about. So yeah, I still blame that one on ford.
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From: Long Island USA
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
The chance of a problem with either of them is slim and I wouldn't hesitate to own either one of them. I am just saying it doesn't make sense when v10 guys bring up durability and say the 6.0 is crap because if a head gasket blows out you have to take the head off. But then in the next sentence they say that if a plug blows out on theirs it's an easy fix that at most requires pulling off the head. Just comparing my 5.4 to my 7.3, there's a heck of a lot more stuff involved in taking the head off the 5.4.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
I have never even plugged my block heater up either and I leave my truck outside. Even on 0 degree days it fires right up. The wait to start light stays on a little longer, but never any issues getting it to start on the first time. I could see that being an issue somewhere like wisconsin where it gets down to -30 degrees, but pretty much anything is going to have issues starting in that kind of weather.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Timesert inserts, when done right, DO NOT come out, AND they can be done with the head on the engine.
Beyond inserts, if you MAINTAIN the spark plugs, especially using anti-sieze, and periodically remove, clean, and retorque them, you won't have an issue.
On FTE, NO ONE has reported doing regular maintenance and losing a plug. Nor has anyone reported losing a timesert insert that was done the right way. Other inserts, Helicoils, yes, they back out when removing a plug, or launch because someone did a bad job reaming out the hole. If it's done correctly, a Timesert will not move.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
Beyond inserts, if you MAINTAIN the spark plugs, especially using anti-sieze, and periodically remove, clean, and retorque them, you won't have an issue.
On FTE, NO ONE has reported doing regular maintenance and losing a plug. Nor has anyone reported losing a timesert insert that was done the right way. Other inserts, Helicoils, yes, they back out when removing a plug, or launch because someone did a bad job reaming out the hole. If it's done correctly, a Timesert will not move.
On FTE, NO ONE has reported doing regular maintenance and losing a plug. Nor has anyone reported losing a timesert insert that was done the right way. Other inserts, Helicoils, yes, they back out when removing a plug, or launch because someone did a bad job reaming out the hole. If it's done correctly, a Timesert will not move.
The insert can be done with the engine on the head, but like I said, I don't drill anything that goes directly into my cylinder. You can be as careful as possible and still drop shavings down in there. It doesn't take much to ruin an engine.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
I've had 3 different plugs blow out. I'm a disabled ASE cert. mechanic, so I'd like to think the problem could be a design flaw rather than my own mechanical shortcomings.
3rd time was a little over a year ago at about 160k. I tried for 3-4 hours to drill the hole out for tapping. Was having a hellatime. Couldn't figure out what was going on. Didn't know if it was the angle, drill bit, or if I had just lost my touch. I really didn't have time to mess with it so I sent it to a working mechanic. 2 weeks and $1300 later I was driving big red again. Problem I was having fixing it was the hole had already been tapped and coiled, and the coil had stripped out.
It had been strictly maintained by the dealership it was leased from and all documentation was in order.
I just don't understand why they couldn't come up with a proper fix for an obvious engineering flaw.
3rd time was a little over a year ago at about 160k. I tried for 3-4 hours to drill the hole out for tapping. Was having a hellatime. Couldn't figure out what was going on. Didn't know if it was the angle, drill bit, or if I had just lost my touch. I really didn't have time to mess with it so I sent it to a working mechanic. 2 weeks and $1300 later I was driving big red again. Problem I was having fixing it was the hole had already been tapped and coiled, and the coil had stripped out.
It had been strictly maintained by the dealership it was leased from and all documentation was in order.
I just don't understand why they couldn't come up with a proper fix for an obvious engineering flaw.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
Here is another that had an insert blow out. According to his research it won't stay in because it's stainless and the head is aluminum.
I had that happen to me in late June. #3 plug, pass side, did the old escape pod routine. After paying for the repair where the dealer put an insert in to the head, everything seemed fine and dandy. Just this week, I had a problem with the #3 cylinder and took it back to them. Found out that the plug melted, the insert came out wrapped around the plug, and that possibly the valves are burnt. I looked online and found that if a stainless insert is put in, it will not stay in.
So where am I not reading what other members post and how am I spreading false information? I am taking my info straight from our fellow FTE members that YOU say have never had this problem. I can find more of these all day long.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 843
Likes: 6
From: Jessup, PA
I didn't think much about this until I saw pretty much the same thing in a couple of other threads..... I'm just curious as to what the "no heat in the cab" argument is about? We have plenty of days in the winter that get down to 0 degrees and it doesn't take my heat any longer to start working in my diesel than it does my other vehicles. It takes me about 5 minutes to get from my house to the main road and all of my vehicles have heat by the time I get there. I don't own anything that has heat the instant I start it up and I don't have anything that takes longer than 5 minutes to have heat either.
I have never even plugged my block heater up either and I leave my truck outside. Even on 0 degree days it fires right up. The wait to start light stays on a little longer, but never any issues getting it to start on the first time. I could see that being an issue somewhere like wisconsin where it gets down to -30 degrees, but pretty much anything is going to have issues starting in that kind of weather.
I have never even plugged my block heater up either and I leave my truck outside. Even on 0 degree days it fires right up. The wait to start light stays on a little longer, but never any issues getting it to start on the first time. I could see that being an issue somewhere like wisconsin where it gets down to -30 degrees, but pretty much anything is going to have issues starting in that kind of weather.
I can only speak from experience from one diesel. A friends 2000 7.3l F450 Dump truck. When I used it once in the winter, it took alot longer for the engine to come up to temp and a lot longer for it to throw hot air. Big difference between that one and my gas pickups.
I'm not going to argue too much about that because you probably have experience with more than one diesel and are familar with that issue, but now you know how I came up with that; it did come from an experience I had, I didn't take it from hear say or make it up.
That experience was last year and his truck has less than 25,000 miles on it and was sitting for several days. Maybe it was a maintance thing.
I must also say that this V10 in my '09 is the quickest engine to reach operating temp that I ever owned.