Big Blue
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Im pretty sure he said they were L&L
Given that, they should fit without issue.
But we all see how the engine has been cobbled into place, so I think the issue is the mounting, not that the heavy wall headers have been tweaked.
Given that, they should fit without issue.
But we all see how the engine has been cobbled into place, so I think the issue is the mounting, not that the heavy wall headers have been tweaked.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Jim - I thought you were onto something about "1/4" lift on the problematic side might equate to 3/8" or more at the collector". Unfortunately where the header is hitting is exactly the same distance from the passenger-side perch as the spacer would be. So, there's no multiplication.
However, your idea of shimming only one side is a good one. I just checked with a level across the valve covers, and the engine sits 1/4" low on the driver's side! So, bringing that side up by itself will get me at least the full .265". But, I can slip a .020" feeler gauge between the perch and the crossmember where the two bolts are missing, so it is sagging/leaning and when I install bolts there it'll come up some.
Another advantage to shimming one side is that the movement of the fan, which is halfway between the perches, will be 1/2 the total lift. So, GOOD IDEA!
Bill - Jim's right, they are L&L's and are really heavily made. The flange itself is 1/2" thick, and the rest of the headers is similarly heavy. So, I'd rather shim the engine than try to modify the headers. But, I see why people don't want headers.
However, your idea of shimming only one side is a good one. I just checked with a level across the valve covers, and the engine sits 1/4" low on the driver's side! So, bringing that side up by itself will get me at least the full .265". But, I can slip a .020" feeler gauge between the perch and the crossmember where the two bolts are missing, so it is sagging/leaning and when I install bolts there it'll come up some.
Another advantage to shimming one side is that the movement of the fan, which is halfway between the perches, will be 1/2 the total lift. So, GOOD IDEA!
Bill - Jim's right, they are L&L's and are really heavily made. The flange itself is 1/2" thick, and the rest of the headers is similarly heavy. So, I'd rather shim the engine than try to modify the headers. But, I see why people don't want headers.
More Turbo
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 585
Likes: 11
I have the Edelbrock chrome valve covers on my 460 and I'm not very happy with them. The truck is never driven in the winter so it has never been exposed to salt and it has rarely been in the rain since being restored, yet they are rusting badly. They looked great for about the first two years but now they look like crap. If I had to do it over again I'd have spent more on aluminum.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I have the Edelbrock chrome valve covers on my 460 and I'm not very happy with them. The truck is never driven in the winter so it has never been exposed to salt and it has rarely been in the rain since being restored, yet they are rusting badly. They looked great for about the first two years but now they look like crap. If I had to do it over again I'd have spent more on aluminum.
I'm leaning more to aluminum covers that I can do in wrinkle black and brushed aluminum to match a stock air cleaner. But the question becomes what aluminum covers. I don't really want "Ford Racing", but would take "Ford Motorsports". And really like Jim's idea of finned aluminum, although I'm not sure I'm ready to spend $300 on them.
So, if y'all spot some somewhere that you think I'd like let me know.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I'm so tired of my leaking tin covers.
Rusty chrome covers advertising someone other than the motor company belong on that French brand.
Gary,
Trick Flow and FRPP both make cast valve covers (as does -your favorite- MrGasket)
The problem is they are all made like a 4" tall box to clear high ratio roller rockers at high lifts.
Weld up aluminum covers usually have the bolts inside the cover and not on a flange.
If you're into the ribbed Cobra style covers there aren't many options.
Rusty chrome covers advertising someone other than the motor company belong on that French brand.
Gary,
Trick Flow and FRPP both make cast valve covers (as does -your favorite- MrGasket)
The problem is they are all made like a 4" tall box to clear high ratio roller rockers at high lifts.
Weld up aluminum covers usually have the bolts inside the cover and not on a flange.
If you're into the ribbed Cobra style covers there aren't many options.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I saw the Mr Gasket ones, but didn't even look at them. Nor the ones that say Holley. Thought about the Trick Flows since Big Blue has the Trick Flow axle cover, but I'm not sold on them. And I don't particularly like "Racing" on the covers. So I'm trolling Craigslist for options, but haven't found anything. And, I sent a PM to jwtimme, a local FTE'er that races 460's, to see what he might have or know of. But, I have some time as it will probably be a month or so before I pull the engine since I want to get the front suspension done on Dad's truck first.
And, I understand what you are saying about the lack of rigidity of the steel covers, and the rust problem on the chrome versions thereof. After fighting leaking valve covers on every American vehicle I'd ever worked on I was quite impressed with the first import I worked on as it had a cast cover and didn't leak. So, I certainly prefer cast covers, and if I don't find what I'm looking for before the time comes I may pop for the finned ones.
Thanks for your guidance.
And, I understand what you are saying about the lack of rigidity of the steel covers, and the rust problem on the chrome versions thereof. After fighting leaking valve covers on every American vehicle I'd ever worked on I was quite impressed with the first import I worked on as it had a cast cover and didn't leak. So, I certainly prefer cast covers, and if I don't find what I'm looking for before the time comes I may pop for the finned ones.
Thanks for your guidance.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I'm not opposed to stamped valve covers
"Powered by Ford" or something.
Shame that even OE ones are not thick enough to keep the flange face straight.
Spreaders look like a bandaid and aftermarket covers are plated about as well as a soup can.
"Powered by Ford" or something.
Shame that even OE ones are not thick enough to keep the flange face straight.
Spreaders look like a bandaid and aftermarket covers are plated about as well as a soup can.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
That engine does look good. But the air cleaner I'm going with, which I think was the stock one, has a black steel bottom and aluminum top. So I'm thinking black and bripushed aluminum on the valve covers as well.
And, I agree about the stock covers being thin. I've had to resort to spreaders, even after flattening the flange, but don't like them. My preference is cast aluminum.
Jwtimme has responded that he's going to a huge swap meet next weekend, and will look for some for me. Meanwhile I'm watching CList and eBay.
And, I agree about the stock covers being thin. I've had to resort to spreaders, even after flattening the flange, but don't like them. My preference is cast aluminum.
Jwtimme has responded that he's going to a huge swap meet next weekend, and will look for some for me. Meanwhile I'm watching CList and eBay.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Interesting that my stock '87 air cleaner is the opposite of yours. (a black lid on an aluminum base)
There seem to be a lot more valve cover options for Windsor's that Lima's.
I've got some orange silicone gaskets from Real Gaskets Tennessee.
They say 20-25 inch pounds which wouldn't seem enough to distort the flange but I guess years of vibration with the extra weight of the A.I.R. logs bolted to them is enough.
There seem to be a lot more valve cover options for Windsor's that Lima's.
I've got some orange silicone gaskets from Real Gaskets Tennessee.
They say 20-25 inch pounds which wouldn't seem enough to distort the flange but I guess years of vibration with the extra weight of the A.I.R. logs bolted to them is enough.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Jim - Are you saying your base is made of aluminum? Hmmm. I'm confused about air cleaners then. And, looking at my web site doesn't help: Air Cleaner Housing #'s - ???Gary's Garagemahal. Man, that is confusing!!!!
Ok, now I have something to do in the shop today besides clean it. I'm gonna see if any of the air cleaners I have carry numbers. Let's see if we can provide some clarity.
Ok, now I have something to do in the shop today besides clean it. I'm gonna see if any of the air cleaners I have carry numbers. Let's see if we can provide some clarity.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Ahh! In my limited experience with the 80-86 trucks I've found only two basic styles of air cleaners for the V8's:
- The smaller-diameter aluminum base and lid that the vast majority of the engines had. These were unpainted and almost all of the bases I've seen have had multiple cracks in them.
- The larger-diameter steel base and aluminum top that, I thought, the 351HO's and 460's came with. And all the ones I've seen had a black base and natural aluminum top.