Chris, I did see that one and the tail gating a trailer truck to block the wind but just wondered what is found in the real world.
Dave ----

 

Kinda "blue" today. This was the view under Big Blue when I went to the shop this morn. The floor was dry before we took the drives each of the last three days that totaled 420 miles.




Here's the view at the top/back of the block. Obviously the turkey pan isn't sealed properly, as this area was bone-dry before our drives. And, you can see where the oil has been going down between the block and the engine plate. So, this is part of the "rear main" leak. But, whether it is all or not I can't tell.






And, here's the view of the side of the pan. I'd cleaned it before our drives so this is new, and the dirt roads we were on provided plenty of dust to point out the leaks.




Here's the culprit on the ATF. That's the bottom of PS pump.




Hmmm, I thought I'd fixed the leak on the return hose, and it doesn't appear to be leaking. Nor does the high-pressure hose. But, a closer look at the pump found this:





And, here's the culprit on the brake fluid. As you can see, the rim of the master is rusty and isn't sealing to the cap. So, while I could stuff the reservoir with paper towels and file the top of the walls, I'm tempted to replace it with the later style. That would give me a good seal and the round cap would work with the less-than-expensive brake bleeders/flushers.






To work on Dad's truck I need to put it on the lift, which means Big Blue needs to be parked outside. But, I don't want to make a mess of the driveway, and these leaks would sure do that. I could put a drip pan under it, but I did that a few weeks ago and the wind blew the pan off into the grass.

So, I'm beginning to think it is time to pull the engine and fix the leaks. With the engine out it'll be easier to run a leak-down test to see if the valves are leaking, and I might as well pull them and have them fixed while the intake is off. I could replace the pan to fix the dip stick leak, and replace both the front and rear main seals at the same time. Plus, that would be the time to swap the ZF5 in. Further, I can put the right bolts in the perches and do something to get the headers off the frame.

Thoughts?

 

Four equally spaced bricks will keep the pan in position!

 

Yep. But, that's not going to help get/keep things clean under the hood. I just checked and the back side of the harmonic balancer is a mess, and the very back edge of its outer rim is wet. And things are getting very messy on the front of the engine and the engine compartment - after I spent quite a bit of time previously cleaning it up. Plus, looking things over a bit I can see that the oil coming from the rear of the engine is getting blown far and wide and isn't just dripping on the pavement. In other words, it is getting messy under there!

So the front main is leaking as well as the pan and the turkey pan, and potentially the rear main. The front main and turkey pan can be fixed in the truck, but the pan and rear main can't. And, the front main and turkey pan are a lot easier to fix on the engine stand than in the truck. So, it seems to me that either I drive it as is and have an ever-growing mess, or pull the engine and fix it all in one go.

And, while I'm at it that would give me easy access to the perches, headers, and the fuel lines that need rerouted away from the headers. (Plus, while the intake is off I can powder coat it. And maybe put some good-looking valve covers on.) All of that stuff needs doing and pulling the engine would facilitate it.

 

Here's what I'm talking about. I cleaned the fender liner 420 miles ago, but the oil is getting slung up it.




And this is the starter wire, which was cleaned 420 miles ago.




So, I think the jury is in on "Drive it and the seals will fix themselves." I have over 600 miles on the truck and it isn't getting any better. So, the engine is coming out. I don't want to drive it and create a bigger mess, so would rather fix it now.

Now the question becomes "when". Do I roll it out and get the front suspension back under Dad's? That would free up the work table, which is currently loaded with front suspension parts. And, it would be like getting to the end of a chapter when reading a book.

On the other hand, I want to pull a trailer loaded with Dad's truck to a car show in Sept with Big Blue. Dad's truck won't be done by then so it won't matter too much what has been completed. However, thinking about it I do want the front suspension under it to be able to roll it on the trailer.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

 

It sure wouldn't be a question for me! But then again, my driveway is already a mess from all of my leaking vehicles.

 

You didn't explain which way you'd go.

 

I've put off fixing leaks for so long that it's something I just don't really care about anymore. I go back to what I was told about Model As back when I had one: "If it ain't leakin' it needs fillin'." If I was in your position I'd be happy that Big Blue was useful and I wouldn't do anything more to him than necessary while I turned my focus to Dad's Truck.

That said, I'm not in your position, and more to the point, I'm not you, or more importantly, you're not me. You have different priorities, and it would be wrong for anyone to think that you should have my priorities. If you saw the mess of oil, antifreeze, dirt and wiring under the hood of my Bronco you'd know that you don't want my priorities!

I'm not saying I'm wrong either, just that I'm different. I'm not retired yet, and I built my Bronco while I was staying married, raising two boys (including holding at least one leadership position in their Cub and Boy Scout units for 13 years) and working full time. My priority with the Bronco was to get it usable as quickly as possible so I could take it on family vacations. I admire your commitment to doing it right, so your kids will have usable, serviceable vehicles when they inherit them (I pity whoever ends up with mine!).

So that's what I would do and why. It'll be fun to see what you end up doing!

 

You sound like me, I held every possible position in a boy scout troop and cub pack except charted organization representative. I was with the same troop from 1959 as a scout until sometime around 2009.

 

You've got a LOT more tenure than me! I was never involved in Scouts until my first son started as a Tiger Cub in 1st grade. Then I was his Den Leader through 5th grade. When he crossed over to Boy Scouts I became an Assistant Scoutmaster in the Troop wjile I took the position of Committee Chair in the Pack while also acting as an Assistant Den Leader for my younger son (I had been with both dens for 3 years before that). While my sons were in two different units was the busiest. For those two years I had scheduled Scout activities 12 nights each month, and that doesn't count campouts! A couple years after my younger son crossed over I took over as Scoutmaster of the Troop (but at least I was out of the Pack then).

After my sons aged out (both as Eagles!) I stepped down as Scoutmaster and stayed on as a committee member, but I've pretty much tailed off there now.

edit: I'm not much for bumper stickers, but I do have one on the back bumper of my Bronco. I have the same one on the back window of my truck's topper too.

 

Bob & Bill - I admire your work with the Scouts. I was one once and remember it fondly.

As for the leaks, since this is my hobby and I really dislike a vehicle that can't hold its liquids, it is a must for me to fix it. It is just a question of when. At this point in time I'm thinking I'll spend some time getting the front suspension and driveline for Dad's truck powder-coated or painted and then installed. At that point I can roll it forward in the shop to clear the lift, back to where it is currently sitting, and pull the engine out of Big Blue.

On the list to do while the engine is out is to:

• Run a leak-down test to see if I need to have the heads serviced
• Replace the turkey pan
• Media-blast and powder coat the intake
• Replace front and rear seals
• Check the main and rod bearing clearances. While I'm there I want to know that they are correct.
• Replace the pan and dipstick with an M-6675-A460
• Re-route the fuel lines to get them away from the header
• Replace the dead-head fuel pressure regulator with the return-style unit, and install it near the carb. Note that this means the vapor separator goes away.
• Get the header off the perch. Today I slipped a .010" feeler between the header and perch, but a .025" won't go. So, how much room do I need? I have almost an inch of clearance between the fan and the top of the shroud.
• Replace the T-19 with the ZF5. That probably means I'll have to use the flywheel that came with the ZF.
• Replace the stock valve covers with something a bit more interesting. Anyone have recommendations?
• Add a bung for an O2 sensor in both headers so I can add the AFR meter at some point

Anyone think of anything I'm missing?

 

Gary, from personal experience, put the vapor separator up where it belongs. If you have a good filter beyond it (the Holley 4180 used a very fine screen in the inlet) you should never have a flooding issue. I am sure the Carter inlet system will handle 3-5 psi with no problem, the flooding was most likely caused by no filter and continuously running pumps.

Valve covers, Summit has Ford Racing covers, there are lots of aftermarket ones available for the 385 series carbureted engines.

Spacers, keep in mind the perch pads are at a 45° angle, so whatever thickness you use, it will only be 1/2 as much at the top. I would make a plate rather than use washers.

Flywheel, unless you have a 460 flywheel for an external balance engine and a ZF5 combination, you will probably need to stay with what's in there now.

Turkey pan to block is a recurring issue on these engines, the original manifold attachment was 4 studs, 1 in each corner, the rest bolts. This allowed the manifold to be "dropped" down straight. Biggest thing, clean everything, throw away the end seals and use a bead of good RTV, the kind you can lay down a nice bead with. There is no seal between the top of the ends and the intake.

 

Bill - Thanks. I plan to put the regulator in front of the carb and have a filter between it and the carb. And, we are in agreement on the cause of the flooding, although we could also add the fact that the pump was running on battery voltage and not through the resistor.

On the headers, what do you think is reasonable clearance? Is 1/4" enough?

As for the flywheel, I do have the 460 flywheel that came with the ZF. Obviously I'll have to have a different clutch disc to accommodate the larger input shaft, so it is a question of whether that disc will work with the clutch plate that is in there or if I have to go with a different one. The one in there is supposedly a 12", so I'm hoping it'll work with a ZF disc.

Yeah, the turkey pan was also a problem on Rusty. Same exact problem - it leaked like a sieve. I used RTV there and will do so on this one. And it will be much easier to get the thing on squarely with the engine on a stand rather than in the truck, so there's every reason to pull the engine and few not to.

 

David just sent me a number of suggestions for valve covers, and since I am cleaning the shop and would rather "play", I'll take that as an opportunity to stop and post.

I looked at the valve covers available and found a wide range of styles and prices, although I must admit that the $1,495 ones David found are over $1,000 more than any I found.

Anyway, I did find that Edelbrock makes a set that are quite inexpensive at $60. They are chromed steel, which isn't my favorite style, but they would go nicely with the other Edelbrock components on the engine, including water pump, cam, intake, and carb.

And then I remembered that I have an Edelbrock air cleaner on the shelf, and that the K&N that's on the 460 is in really poor shape due to the lack of a working cowl seal while in Florida. Here's a "before" shot with the rusty K&N:




And, here's a shot with the Eddy on. It has a dropped bottom to clear a low hood - what does that do to the air flow?




But, here's a shot of an integrated air cleaner - Eddy top and bottom but the 4" K&N filter instead of the 3" Eddy filter.




So, a couple of questions arise:

• What do you think of the Edelbrock valve cover idea?
• Which air cleaner bottom would provide the better flow - the dropped Eddy or the higher K&N? (Obviously I can use the K&N bottom and filter with the Eddy top.)

Edit: I just put the K&N base and filter on and then the Eddy top, and then noticed that the whole thing was leaning to the right. I pulled the top and filter and found the K&N base wobbled on top of the carb. Turns out it is bent and the surface that goes down against the carb isn't flat. In fact, it can't really seal. So, at least for now the question of which base flows better is moot. I'll run the Eddy top and bottom and K&N filter.

 

Gary, regarding the valve covers... what about powder coating what is currently on the engine?