Dad's Engine
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
Thanks. But, the M/400 uses what is referred to as the "turkey pan" that covers the vee of the engine so there is no oil nor hot gasses that hit the intake. I've attached a picture so it is easier to understand, but there is no contact between the intake and the turkey pan, much less the hot oil.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Gary,
You can't use the turkey pan with aluminum heads or manifold.
-Differential expansion-
(Check Edelbrock's or Trick Flow's sites for gasket recommendations.)
The point of it is to keep oil from cooking on the heated exhaust crossover,
not hot oil from heating the manifold.
And, YOU WON'T HAVE a heated exhaust crossover...
In all, I am glad you are going with the TFS Streets.
I know it doesn't fit your "Ford, another way" ideal.
But it will give you less headaches and a better margin in the end.
You can't use the turkey pan with aluminum heads or manifold.
-Differential expansion-
(Check Edelbrock's or Trick Flow's sites for gasket recommendations.)
The point of it is to keep oil from cooking on the heated exhaust crossover,
not hot oil from heating the manifold.
And, YOU WON'T HAVE a heated exhaust crossover...
In all, I am glad you are going with the TFS Streets.
I know it doesn't fit your "Ford, another way" ideal.
But it will give you less headaches and a better margin in the end.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I think the heated spacer is another red herring.
By the time the coolant is up to temp the aluminum heads are going to be too.
(these work great on an I-6 where the intake is hanging WAY off in space)
By the time the coolant is up to temp the aluminum heads are going to be too.
(these work great on an I-6 where the intake is hanging WAY off in space)
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
No, but I think he should consider a snubber at the very least.
Heck, the 6,084# springs in my F-250 hop with only 220Hp.
Heck, the 6,084# springs in my F-250 hop with only 220Hp.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I already Repped you for the temp stability thoughts, once I went back and really looked at your post.
The 9" torque arm is an interesting item I'm not too familiar with.
Most people would go to a 4-link and coilovers these days.
I know Gary wants to keep it as much 'Dad's Truck' as he can.
Thanks for your input!
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Ok guys, I was confused. I am using a turkey pan on Rusty w/an Eddy Performer manifold and cast iron heads and assumed I would with the Trick Flows and the same intake. But while you were typing I was calling TFS and they told me the same thing you did:
As for the torque arm, wouldn't that put a LOT of stress on that little bolt at the top of the 9"??? I just looked under Rusty and there's not much room under there. And then the front end of the arm would have to be anchored, which requires a cross member. I think the snubber is more practical, but will have to think about this.
- There's no need for the turkey pan since there's no exhaust heat in the intake manifold
- A FelPro #1205 gasket will easily make up for the lack of the pan's thickness
- The lack of exhaust heat won't be a problem at all with economy, although he did agree that running heated air in the air cleaner is the way to go.
As for the torque arm, wouldn't that put a LOT of stress on that little bolt at the top of the 9"??? I just looked under Rusty and there's not much room under there. And then the front end of the arm would have to be anchored, which requires a cross member. I think the snubber is more practical, but will have to think about this.
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
And, I missed the edit with the carb spacer so had to go back and see what you two were talking about. Now I understand. We'll see if I need that, but will start w/o it and can add it in later if needed. Thanks!
In fact, I think a lot of things are going to be "if needed". Like a torque arm. But, I appreciate the input.
In fact, I think a lot of things are going to be "if needed". Like a torque arm. But, I appreciate the input.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Ford Super Duty: 5 Things Owners LOVE, 5 Things They LOATHE!
Joe Kucinski
Every 2026 Ford Truck Engine RANKED from WORST to FIRST!
Michael S. Palmer
The Best F-150 Deal of Every Trim Level (XL through Raptor)
Joe Kucinski
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Gary,
It looks like the torque arm gets two bolts at the top and the two at the pinion flange too.
If it is rotating around the axle, the bottom is pushing much more than the top is in tension.
It looks like the torque arm gets two bolts at the top and the two at the pinion flange too.
If it is rotating around the axle, the bottom is pushing much more than the top is in tension.
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Now that I look a bit more closely I see you are right - as always. I'm thinking it pushing will be the main prevention from wrapping. Would you go all the way forward to the rear tranny crossmember with the arm?
I could fab something like that as it looks like it is angle and square tubing. Might be an interesting project.
I could fab something like that as it looks like it is angle and square tubing. Might be an interesting project.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Like I said to BruteFord, I don't know much about torque arms on a 9".
There are no bolts to use on the front of my 10.25.
I know more about old school ladder bars, trailing links and snubbers...
I'm sure there are reasons for the geometry (whatever it is)
There are no bolts to use on the front of my 10.25.
I know more about old school ladder bars, trailing links and snubbers...
I'm sure there are reasons for the geometry (whatever it is)
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Let's turn this conversation to ignition systems. I'm planning on just going with a rebuilt DS-II system as I'm pretty sure it is adequate to as high as I'll spin the 400. So today was looking at the dizzy that came off the $40 400 I bought - the one with three wire nuts on it. 
It has an ID tag showing D7AE 12127-BA. That's a bit too old for my parts catalog, although the catalog does have D8TE 12127-BA.
Anyway, I did a Google search for the D7 # and got a hit on . A new, not rebuilt, unit for $19.38 and free shipping? And Amazon says it fits an 81 F250 w/the 400. Granted I don't need the dual vacuum advance so may be able to find another # without it, but it sure is cheap. And I have the adjustable Crane unit on Rusty that'll go right on this one, so what's wrong with this picture?
It has an ID tag showing D7AE 12127-BA. That's a bit too old for my parts catalog, although the catalog does have D8TE 12127-BA.Anyway, I did a Google search for the D7 # and got a hit on . A new, not rebuilt, unit for $19.38 and free shipping? And Amazon says it fits an 81 F250 w/the 400. Granted I don't need the dual vacuum advance so may be able to find another # without it, but it sure is cheap. And I have the adjustable Crane unit on Rusty that'll go right on this one, so what's wrong with this picture?
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Is the $40 engine one DSII???
I think you'll get lots of arcing if you run that cap with a hot coil and wide plug gaps.
You have no other emissions stuff going into your engine.
Why would you need retard on closed throttle?
If Rusty's dizzy already has a Crane advance, swap the whole thing into Dad's Truck.
Those two little screws always strip if you run them in and out a few times.
ETA: (1) "Made in Taiwan"
(2) Will that cast iron gear work with the cam you're getting?
I think you'll get lots of arcing if you run that cap with a hot coil and wide plug gaps.
You have no other emissions stuff going into your engine.
Why would you need retard on closed throttle?
If Rusty's dizzy already has a Crane advance, swap the whole thing into Dad's Truck.
Those two little screws always strip if you run them in and out a few times.
ETA: (1) "Made in Taiwan"
(2) Will that cast iron gear work with the cam you're getting?
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I wasn't suggesting I would run that cap. But I obviously didn't state that and should have. Sorry. I was only thinking of using that new housing, pickup, harness, etc. And I would run the later style adaptor and cap.
I could swap Dad's dizzy, which has a good vacuum advance, into Rusty and vice versa. But both of those units are well worn. And, while the $40 engine had a DS-II dizzy with side-play that appears to be minimal, the end-play is about 1/8". So, I could re-work any of them, but for $19 it doesn't seem worth it.
I don't know what gear the cam needs, but the gear could easily be swapped.
I could swap Dad's dizzy, which has a good vacuum advance, into Rusty and vice versa. But both of those units are well worn. And, while the $40 engine had a DS-II dizzy with side-play that appears to be minimal, the end-play is about 1/8". So, I could re-work any of them, but for $19 it doesn't seem worth it.
I don't know what gear the cam needs, but the gear could easily be swapped.