Dad's Engine
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,593
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From: Prairieville, La
Gary, I was doing some surfing and saw this article about the "Mutt".
Have you seen or read it? 500 horsepower 565 torque for $5,000.00. They used Eddie heads. It may not be very informative though... it only goes 6 pages deep before conclusion.
The Mutt - Tech - Parts Used - Hot Rod Magazine Page 2
Have you seen or read it? 500 horsepower 565 torque for $5,000.00. They used Eddie heads. It may not be very informative though... it only goes 6 pages deep before conclusion.
The Mutt - Tech - Parts Used - Hot Rod Magazine Page 2
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Ok, I've read the bit in the link on rod length and cam timing. And they summarized by:
In general, to achieve the same piston position timing with short and long rods, the engine with longer rods should have a cam with slightly less duration and with a smaller lobe separation angle.
And, in their example the change from a 5" rod to a 6.2" rod was only 1.7° in intake valve closing, so that isn't a huge change with a large change in rod length. But, what it doesn't say is whether two engines having cam timing determined by "piston position" will cause them to run the same. Or, did I miss that?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 2
From: Prairieville, La
I also found an older thread here at FTE with some feuding, but an interesting link from member William William.
M-Block 351M/400 History
I am sure Gary has read most of this in some of his books already, but it is some cool history to learn.
And Gary I still vote for the Aussie heads.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Kyle - I have read that one several times. They got lots of power, that's for sure. 
However, by leaving the pistons down in the hole .030" they killed the quench they could have had from the Eddy closed-chamber heads. So the M/400's propensity to ping or clatter is still there in that engine. The problem they had was they couldn't find pistons with the proper dish to give them the right CR when zero-decked. Fortunately in the 6 years since they did that Tim has come along and provided pistons that fit most of our needs on the 400. He has pistons that give essentially the same CR they had, 10.5, while coming right to the top of the block, thereby giving good quench. The best of both worlds.
Anyway, while I'm not going to have quite as many cubes (408 vs their 431), and probably not as much cam, I do expect to make lots of power! Thanks!
However, by leaving the pistons down in the hole .030" they killed the quench they could have had from the Eddy closed-chamber heads. So the M/400's propensity to ping or clatter is still there in that engine. The problem they had was they couldn't find pistons with the proper dish to give them the right CR when zero-decked. Fortunately in the 6 years since they did that Tim has come along and provided pistons that fit most of our needs on the 400. He has pistons that give essentially the same CR they had, 10.5, while coming right to the top of the block, thereby giving good quench. The best of both worlds.
Anyway, while I'm not going to have quite as many cubes (408 vs their 431), and probably not as much cam, I do expect to make lots of power! Thanks!
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Northeast, OK
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
They being Hot Rod? Yes, they had the crank ground to 4.2" so it had to have been a 400 as you can't grind a 3.5" throw M crank to get to 4.2".
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Try boring your block to 4.36"
Ok, I've read the bit in the link on rod length and cam timing. And they summarized by:
In general, to achieve the same piston position timing with short and long rods, the engine with longer rods should have a cam with slightly less duration and with a smaller lobe separation angle.
And, in their example the change from a 5" rod to a 6.2" rod was only 1.7° in intake valve closing
Are they saying ~'have the same amount of overlap with a tighter LSA'?
(sorry if I am not following closely. either the FTE server or my Gmail is having an issue. Seems notifications are held up for hours)
Maybe it's the NSA?
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,575
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From: Broken Arrow , OK
There's no replacement for displacement.
Try boring your block to 4.36"
The difference in that graph is 1.7"-1", or... 0.7"
Are they saying ~'have the same amount of overlap with a tighter LSA'?
(sorry if I am not following closely. either the FTE server or my Gmail is having an issue. Seems notifications are held up for hours)
Maybe it's the NSA?
Try boring your block to 4.36"
The difference in that graph is 1.7"-1", or... 0.7"
Are they saying ~'have the same amount of overlap with a tighter LSA'?
(sorry if I am not following closely. either the FTE server or my Gmail is having an issue. Seems notifications are held up for hours)
Maybe it's the NSA?
My email hasn't updated the threads at all tonight. The only way I know if there is a reply is by actually logging on and checking the threads.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
In the example they said the piston on the 6.2" rod would be at the same place at 53.3 degrees. That put it at the same place as the one on the 5" rod when it was at 55 degrees. Ergo a 1.7 degree diff due to the rods.
Email up dates? You are getting them? I think I'm getting yesterday's. Chris knows about and has alerted the proper folk, so hopefully they can find the plug and fix it.
Email up dates? You are getting them? I think I'm getting yesterday's. Chris knows about and has alerted the proper folk, so hopefully they can find the plug and fix it.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2013
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Na, Obama just said they'd wind back on the sneaky action
didn't he?
I'm sure the NSA handed back the keys to the candy store
My notifications are about 6 hours late, so it must be the Eschelon system
didn't he?I'm sure the NSA handed back the keys to the candy store
My notifications are about 6 hours late, so it must be the Eschelon system