Gas vs PSD
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 3
From: So Oregon
You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. If you take a portion of a post, out of context, and respond in such a manner then I don't care if you take me seriously or not. It's up to you.
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Humble, Texas
I wonder what the performance numbers would be at 10k or above. I once heard that a psd (not sure which model) could hold sea level performance up to about 11,500 feet. Regardless of whether it's true, the red neck logic test would show a larger decrease in performance for the V10 than for a psd, I would guess by a significant amount.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 80,542
Likes: 97
From: Norlina NC
i dont really feel like reading through 20 pages of debate... yes id like a v10 but same ways lately with the flop in whos cheaper at the pumps ive been considering diesels..
now ive seen yall have the hp/tq debate already in the first 2 pages... and looks like its still continuing on this last one...
my question is... Ive ALWAYS!!! heard that with diesels short trips are hard on the engines... where with gassers theyre not.. or at least not as badly on the gassers as on the diesels.. im just wanting to know if its true...
like for instance.. if i were to drive.. say 5-10 miles down the road.. which engines being hurt more from a trip that short?
now ive seen yall have the hp/tq debate already in the first 2 pages... and looks like its still continuing on this last one...
my question is... Ive ALWAYS!!! heard that with diesels short trips are hard on the engines... where with gassers theyre not.. or at least not as badly on the gassers as on the diesels.. im just wanting to know if its true...
like for instance.. if i were to drive.. say 5-10 miles down the road.. which engines being hurt more from a trip that short?
im gonna bump my question here since people seemed to of missed it being burried at the bottom of the page.. id really like to know if what i was told is true here or just engine myth thats been handed around forever...
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
I disagree.
3,000 hours may very well be only 144,000 miles, but that also means 144,000 miles at 3,600 RPMs at high engine load...NOT cruising the freeway at 1,800 RPMs. Now, you V10 folks, when towing heavy how often are you over 3,000 RPMs? Just buy guessing, I'd say the only time you'd be using that kind of power is when pulling hills with lots o' weight. Which is what, over the lifespan of the truck? 5%? 10%? 25% for the very heaviest usage?
So, say a maximum of 25% of the engine's lifespan is spent at high RPMs under high load...the other 75% of the time the engine would not be working very hard. What's the lifespan of the engine for the other 75% of the time?
I'd wager that even if you were towing heavy over hills 50% of the time, which I doubt anyone actually does, the other 50% of engine life would be spent at much lower stress, which would put the usable life of the engine at well over 200,000 miles. How many trucks last much longer than that? Even worked hard, I believe the engine would last longer than the truck.
3,000 hours may very well be only 144,000 miles, but that also means 144,000 miles at 3,600 RPMs at high engine load...NOT cruising the freeway at 1,800 RPMs. Now, you V10 folks, when towing heavy how often are you over 3,000 RPMs? Just buy guessing, I'd say the only time you'd be using that kind of power is when pulling hills with lots o' weight. Which is what, over the lifespan of the truck? 5%? 10%? 25% for the very heaviest usage?
So, say a maximum of 25% of the engine's lifespan is spent at high RPMs under high load...the other 75% of the time the engine would not be working very hard. What's the lifespan of the engine for the other 75% of the time?
I'd wager that even if you were towing heavy over hills 50% of the time, which I doubt anyone actually does, the other 50% of engine life would be spent at much lower stress, which would put the usable life of the engine at well over 200,000 miles. How many trucks last much longer than that? Even worked hard, I believe the engine would last longer than the truck.
If ignorant people knew how the manufacturers did their durability tests, then they wouldn't be here arguing about an engine operating within the manufacturer's specified RPM range.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Windsor, Colorado
I found a dyno run on a 3v V10 here is the link.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...46448671zDDhTK
the numbers are much lower than the ones you guys are throwing around here, 218hp and from what I can tell from the pic it looks like around 260tq, but I could be wrong on that. There is a stock 6.4 on youtube run at 274hp and 630tq. Seems like ford is inflating the number on the V10 a lot more than the 6.4 so maybe some of the math needs to be re figured there.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
KEEP IT NICE PEOPLE!
This thread is fun, and somewhat interesting, and I'd like to keep it open.
Throwing "ignorant" around isn't going to help anyone
This thread is fun, and somewhat interesting, and I'd like to keep it open.
Throwing "ignorant" around isn't going to help anyone
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Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
You sure think you are one smart guy there calling people who attempt to put your service hours to actual miles IGNORANT. No need to go insulting someones intelligence for there comments. It isn't like comments about the a v10's lack of a turbo are brilliant.
I found a dyno run on a 3v V10 here is the link.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...46448671zDDhTK
the numbers are much lower than the ones you guys are throwing around here, 218hp and from what I can tell from the pic it looks like around 260tq, but I could be wrong on that. There is a stock 6.4 on youtube run at 274hp and 630tq. Seems like ford is inflating the number on the V10 a lot more than the 6.4 so maybe some of the math needs to be re figured there.
I found a dyno run on a 3v V10 here is the link.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...46448671zDDhTK
the numbers are much lower than the ones you guys are throwing around here, 218hp and from what I can tell from the pic it looks like around 260tq, but I could be wrong on that. There is a stock 6.4 on youtube run at 274hp and 630tq. Seems like ford is inflating the number on the V10 a lot more than the 6.4 so maybe some of the math needs to be re figured there.
If I had called them stupid, that would be an insult.
The "rule of thumb" that was pointed out is not accurate. 3600 rpms is over 60 mph in a 1:1 ratio(NOT in OD). Simple grade school math tells us that 3000 hours x 60 mph = 180K miles.
The dyno runs you're looking at were done in 3rd gear on a Dyno Dynamics dyno. Was the 6.4L you're referencing done on the same dyno in the same manner? I doubt it.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Windsor, Colorado
If you can find some other rwhp numbers for a stock V10 post them. Everything I have seen of dyno number off a V10 have been far below the ford numbers. Beings everyone is trying crunch numbers it would be nice if it were actual proven numbers and not just something out a brochure.
I guess if there are no dyno runs out there to compare all the numbers are just speculation.
I guess if there are no dyno runs out there to compare all the numbers are just speculation.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
In a truck, with big tires, heavy driveshaft, heavy tranny, etc, there's a huge loss between the flywheel and the ground.
And that's even before you get into HOW a rear-wheel dyno actually derives those numbers
FTE Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 80,542
Likes: 97
From: Norlina NC
ty man... and i agree short trips on either isnt good on an engine... but with living in a multi-city where i pretty much can get anywhere within a hr made me wonder.. most my drives are 15-20 mins long.. and thats maybe 5-10 miles depending where im going.... and with the way i had always heard it was drives like that were practically suicide for a diesel engine... so thats why i was asking...
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Windsor, Colorado
Rear-wheel dyno numbers are ALWAYS way below the posted "flywheel" numbers for ANY vehicle.
In a truck, with big tires, heavy driveshaft, heavy tranny, etc, there's a huge loss between the flywheel and the ground.
And that's even before you get into HOW a rear-wheel dyno actually derives those numbers
In a truck, with big tires, heavy driveshaft, heavy tranny, etc, there's a huge loss between the flywheel and the ground.
And that's even before you get into HOW a rear-wheel dyno actually derives those numbers