Gas vs PSD
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
"The base Vortec 8100 V-8 engine offers a maximum of 375 hp at 4600 rpm. Maximum torque, which is 490 lbs-ft, is at 3200 rpm, a popular cruising speed. The high-performance version offers a maximum 420 hp at 5000 rpm, and maximum torque is 505 lbs-ft at 4000 rpm."
thats not too shabby of an engine there. comparing the high performance to the base also shows you the problem with building a gas engine. as you increase hp and tq you also increase the rpms it takes to make those numbers. it may not be as fast as the high performance version, but i will take 490 tq at 3200 rpms over 505 tq at 4k rpms any day of the week when it comes to towing. i want power where im cruising, not where i have to downshift and run it harder.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
Independent testing of 2005 Chevy 8.1 vs 2006 Ford v10, using identical motor homes down to the fabrics, showed the following:
<table class="normal" id="Table1" width="500" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr> <td width="100">
</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">Chevy (sec.)</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">Ford
(sec.)</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">
</td></tr> <tr> <td>0-60 Towing</td> <td>31.5</td> <td>34.1</td> <td>
</td></tr> <tr> <td>40-60 Towing</td> <td>14.3</td> <td>16.0</td> <td>
</td></tr> <tr> <td>50-70 passing</td> <td>20.2</td> <td>22.8</td> <td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Humble, Texas
According to a quick calculation, a psd in 5th gear, 33 in tires, and 3.73 gears is turning 1,888 rpm. With everything the same except 4.30 gears, it is turning 2,176.
At 93 mph: 3.73 - 2,508, 4.30 - 2,891.
I'd like to note that larger tires will reduce the rpm numbers as well as the fact that these rpm numbers are below the max hp rpm of 3,000 for a 6.4. I wouldn't want 4.30's in my truck, but if I had them, it would pull even better and I would have no operational limitations...at least the way I would drive it.
Smokin
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,849
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I hate being left out.
Have fun in UT. Post pictures.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 39
i have 4.10's in my 7.3 and i am doing about 2500 rpms at 70 mph. with 4.30s i would probably be doing about 2800 rpm. it redlines at 3600, so it would still have plenty of pedal left. it would probably top out at about 85-90 with the 4.30's. faster than i have any reason to drive a truck.
The psd would theoretically top out at a lower speed. The question is whether that speed is higher than the limit within the PCM.
According to a quick calculation, a psd in 5th gear, 33 in tires, and 3.73 gears is turning 1,888 rpm. With everything the same except 4.30 gears, it is turning 2,176.
At 93 mph: 3.73 - 2,508, 4.30 - 2,891.
I'd like to note that larger tires will reduce the rpm numbers as well as the fact that these rpm numbers are below the max hp rpm of 3,000 for a 6.4. I wouldn't want 4.30's in my truck, but if I had them, it would pull even better and I would have no operational limitations...at least the way I would drive it.
According to a quick calculation, a psd in 5th gear, 33 in tires, and 3.73 gears is turning 1,888 rpm. With everything the same except 4.30 gears, it is turning 2,176.
At 93 mph: 3.73 - 2,508, 4.30 - 2,891.
I'd like to note that larger tires will reduce the rpm numbers as well as the fact that these rpm numbers are below the max hp rpm of 3,000 for a 6.4. I wouldn't want 4.30's in my truck, but if I had them, it would pull even better and I would have no operational limitations...at least the way I would drive it.
If this were the Club forum, I would have an appropriate response.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
also, here are some numbers comparing the 8.1 vs a 3v v10 in identical motorhomes. this site uses the same numbers as the first post i made. 340 hp and 455 tq. so not sure where that other site got their numbers. either way, its right there with the v10.
Independent testing of 2005 Chevy 8.1 vs 2006 Ford v10, using identical motor homes down to the fabrics, showed the following:
<table class="normal" id="Table1" width="500" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr> <td width="100">
</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">Chevy (sec.)</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">Ford
(sec.)</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">
</td></tr> <tr> <td>0-60 Towing</td> <td>31.5</td> <td>34.1</td> <td>
</td></tr> <tr> <td>40-60 Towing</td> <td>14.3</td> <td>16.0</td> <td>
</td></tr> <tr> <td>50-70 passing</td> <td>20.2</td> <td>22.8</td> <td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Independent testing of 2005 Chevy 8.1 vs 2006 Ford v10, using identical motor homes down to the fabrics, showed the following:
<table class="normal" id="Table1" width="500" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr> <td width="100">
</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">Chevy (sec.)</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">Ford
(sec.)</td> <td class="subsubhead" width="100">
</td></tr> <tr> <td>0-60 Towing</td> <td>31.5</td> <td>34.1</td> <td>
</td></tr> <tr> <td>40-60 Towing</td> <td>14.3</td> <td>16.0</td> <td>
</td></tr> <tr> <td>50-70 passing</td> <td>20.2</td> <td>22.8</td> <td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Thread Starter
|
Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
The psd would theoretically top out at a lower speed. The question is whether that speed is higher than the limit within the PCM.
According to a quick calculation, a psd in 5th gear, 33 in tires, and 3.73 gears is turning 1,888 rpm. With everything the same except 4.30 gears, it is turning 2,176.
At 93 mph: 3.73 - 2,508, 4.30 - 2,891.
I'd like to note that larger tires will reduce the rpm numbers as well as the fact that these rpm numbers are below the max hp rpm of 3,000 for a 6.4. I wouldn't want 4.30's in my truck, but if I had them, it would pull even better and I would have no operational limitations...at least the way I would drive it.
According to a quick calculation, a psd in 5th gear, 33 in tires, and 3.73 gears is turning 1,888 rpm. With everything the same except 4.30 gears, it is turning 2,176.
At 93 mph: 3.73 - 2,508, 4.30 - 2,891.
I'd like to note that larger tires will reduce the rpm numbers as well as the fact that these rpm numbers are below the max hp rpm of 3,000 for a 6.4. I wouldn't want 4.30's in my truck, but if I had them, it would pull even better and I would have no operational limitations...at least the way I would drive it.
I said before that 4.30s, would limit it to 85 and I was wrong. I ment 4.88s and mistyped.
Thread Starter
|
Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
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Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Humble, Texas
I think they stick with 3.73's for fuel economy. The psd can produce enough power to handle most towing applications while keeping fuel economy as a relative priority. If you went with steeper gears, you'd have a better towing rig but you'd take a hit at the pump. Although I don't think the hit would be a whole lot.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Windsor, Colorado
The OBS psd offered 3.55 or 4.10 and the mileage difference was quite noticeable. The 95 my dad had and the 94 I had both had 3.55's and made much better mileage than the guys with 4.10's, but they would out pull us with ease. The 4.10 is a great pulling ratio for a 7.3, but the 3.73 is a great compromise.
FTE Legend
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 37,887
Likes: 20
From: North Central Rural Sask.
Funniest thing Ive read all day! I hope your joking that you think a v10 engine would do more work then a cat c9.I mean why do you guys think they make them with all that torque, and not have 800 hp low torque engines.
Some of ya fellas just gotta get behind the seat of a few of the lower horsepower higher torque 3406 cats, 350 cummins with a 13ish speed and 4.11 rear diffs, and tell me that a v10 truck could outpull it. Its insane to even think that.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,841
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville, Ca
That is a good question. Without a chart, it's pure speculation. However, when you follow the hp logic, the peak hp is at 3,000 rpm so it shouldn't be a problem.
I think they stick with 3.73's for fuel economy. The psd can produce enough power to handle most towing applications while keeping fuel economy as a relative priority. If you went with steeper gears, you'd have a better towing rig but you'd take a hit at the pump. Although I don't think the hit would be a whole lot.
I think they stick with 3.73's for fuel economy. The psd can produce enough power to handle most towing applications while keeping fuel economy as a relative priority. If you went with steeper gears, you'd have a better towing rig but you'd take a hit at the pump. Although I don't think the hit would be a whole lot.
I hope they do not close this thread because of a few HOT tempers. This is quite enjoyable. I am certain that a V10 and a PSD from this site will eventually meet and then they will see the results first hand.
Parts of this thread remind me of racing against Chevy guys. LOL
First they complain if you have slicks. Then they complain if you have nitrous. Then the complain your car is lighter. Sounds just like the V10 guys here. But you have a turbo, or you have a couple of mods. Whatever.
The real funny thing is they will have plenty of time to think of their excuses as they are trying to catch up to the PSD.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,841
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville, Ca
it doesnt matter if its stock vs stock or even vs even. no matter what the competition, the v10 will always win. against every engine from every manufacturer. period.
v10 vs psd? v10 wins because it has more hp, and hp is what gets the job done when towing. v10 vs tundra? v10 wins because it has more torque, and torque is what gets the job done when towing. v10 vs psd? v10 wins because its faster. v10 vs tundra? who cares if the tundra is faster, towing isnt about drag racing. v10 vs 460? v10 wins because it gets better gas mileage. v10 vs psd? who cares about gas mileage, these are trucks, not 4 cylinders. v10 vs silverado? v10 wins because you have to run the chevy wide open to make any power, and you want power at low rpms for towing. v10 vs psd? v10 wins because it makes more power at higher rpms. and on and on and on......
v10 vs psd? v10 wins because it has more hp, and hp is what gets the job done when towing. v10 vs tundra? v10 wins because it has more torque, and torque is what gets the job done when towing. v10 vs psd? v10 wins because its faster. v10 vs tundra? who cares if the tundra is faster, towing isnt about drag racing. v10 vs 460? v10 wins because it gets better gas mileage. v10 vs psd? who cares about gas mileage, these are trucks, not 4 cylinders. v10 vs silverado? v10 wins because you have to run the chevy wide open to make any power, and you want power at low rpms for towing. v10 vs psd? v10 wins because it makes more power at higher rpms. and on and on and on......
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
Who has been making complaints that it is not fair?