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This is a screenshot of my numbers on my truck. This was a “crank but no start” I was having. The engine was cranking for ~5 seconds when this was taken.
i use Torquepro as a monitor so it looks a bit different than your Forscan.
The numbers look similar to yours with your ICP unplugged.
If you unplugged the ICP sensor (pcm then defaults to number) and you got the numbers you say 2300 psi ICP and 32% IPR. I would think the truck would start with those two HPO numbers?
I thought so too. And does the corresponding change/drop in IPR mean that it is functioning
did you get a start with those numbers??? Or did they have to adjust??? What was your issue?
untill the HPO issue is ruled out something else comes to mind I haven’t seen mentioned is PATS. Being an EX is your PATS functioning normally? I have no experience with PATS but have read treads here on FTE of issues.[/QUOTE]
- The Excursion was starting and running prior to the "maintenance".
- The maintenance performed consisted of the following:
Originally Posted by Mod7.3
Oil cooler seals. Glow plugs. Valve cover harness. Main engine wire harness. Rebuild fuel bowl and spring/seals, fuel lines and high flow fittings, remove turbo and pedestal and replace o rings, ebpv rebuild/seals, hpop lines, drained coolant and replaced with distilled water to flush. New belt. I think that’s about it
- Some things were not reconnected right away, but are now. Things like the MAP sensor tube and 42 pin connector.
- No puffs of smoke out of the exhaust pipe during an attempt to start.
- Fuel bowl is full.
- Fuel pump has not been verified to be working, but assumed to be working.
- Standpipe in fuel bowl has yet to be checked.
- WTS light does come on.
- GPCM has not been checked for working order.
- Block heater has not been plugged in but the truck is in a garage. Unknown if the garage is climate controlled.
- IPR on order from Riffraff due to clues about the HPO oil system readings.
- IPR has been rebuilt since the "maintenance" items list noted above was accomplished.
- During buzz test video I only hear 7 injectors, no answer to the question I posed about that.
- IPR coil tested good with 10.3 which is within the 10.2 to 10.6 ohm specification.
Mod7.3 posted the below image which indicates a HPO issue. Both the IPR and ICP were plugged in at this time as I understand it.
Originally Posted by Mod7.3
- With ICP unplugged, the Excursion still would not start.
Mod7.3 posted the below image which does not indicate a HPO issue. IPR plugged in and ICP unplugged as I understand it.
Originally Posted by Mod7.3
- PATS is something I had not thought about because I don't know Jack **** about it.
- Battery voltage is within spec apparently, but has not been verified.
- It is unknown to me if there is a chip on the PCM.
- HPOP reservoir has oil in it.
- Air was introduced into the HPO system, but should be out by now after many, many cranking sessions.
- No Start Flow Chart should be run through by Mod7.3 because we are unable to see what he is seeing.
- Verified results are needed from the tests being run.
This was said...
Originally Posted by Mod7.3
But unlikely as it didn’t start when I tried before I had forscan and had old harness hooked up.
Did I miss anything Mod7.3?
Starting a 7.3 really is quite simple as long as there is fuel, high pressure oil, communication to the injectors and the PCM is working. Yes, there are other auxiliary systems that help the truck run efficiently, but the 7.3L is a robust engine that doesn't demand much to keep going. You are close, the finish is in sight!
Now, I must leave the FTE and go work on building a library for my wife that has been an ongoing project for the past 2 years... I will be back to see if any progress or further tests have been completed with verified results. Good luck to you Mod7.3 and I sincerely hope I see a "IT STARTED" post when I return.
Mod, when your icp is plugged in and you crank the motor what is your Ipr psi?
This was unclear to me when I struggled with a no start. Unplugging the icp causes the pcm to default to 2300psi. It does not mean that you have 2300 psi in the hpo system.
This is a screenshot of my numbers on my truck. This was a “crank but no start” I was having. The engine was cranking for ~5 seconds when this was taken.
i use Torquepro as a monitor so it looks a bit different than your Forscan.
The numbers look similar to yours with your ICP unplugged.
If you unplugged the ICP sensor (pcm then defaults to number) and you got the numbers you say 2300 psi ICP and 32% IPR. I would think the truck would start with those two HPO numbers?
untill the HPO issue is ruled out something else comes to mind I haven’t seen mentioned is PATS. Being an EX is your PATS functioning normally? I have no experience with PATS but have read treads here on FTE of issues.
Originally Posted by T-wood
Mod, when your icp is plugged in and you crank the motor what is your Ipr psi?
This was unclear to me when I struggled with a no start. Unplugging the icp causes the pcm to default to 2300psi. It does not mean that you have 2300 psi in the hpo system.
thansk for clarifying. When icp is plugged in IPR reading is 64%.
my addition question is, does the change in the IPR reading when icp is unplugged, from 64 to about 32, suggest the IPR is functioning? At least partly ?
Did you disassemble and reassemble the IPR as part of the original maintenance or to trouble shoot the no start? People have put the little needle in backwards or left it out completely when doing work on the IPR. Not 100% sure if backwards would cause a no start but left out would.
Did you disassemble and reassemble the IPR as part of the original maintenance or to trouble shoot the no start? People have put the little needle in backwards or left it out completely when doing work on the IPR. Not 100% sure if backwards would cause a no start but left out would.
i did it at both times. Changed o rings at maintenance and checked it again as troubleshoot. I’m sure I put both the small and larger pin back in but not entirely sure which direction for little pin. From the videos I watched no one mentioned direction of it.
On reassembly. I guess there would be a chance the little pin slipped out and is sitting in that gap, but thought I was careful holding the IPR even so both pins would stay until I tightened it down enough.
When I reassembled an Ipr with the needle backwards it would max fuel then the pcm would defuel. All in seconds of ea other. It sounded like a loud lope on a giant hotrod. You will know if you did this.
Mod you have a no start due to low icp. 0psi and the Ipr is 65% so Ipr is commanding oil pressure. I would put my full attention to this. Since you have a new harness this rules out a bad pigtail. My guess is something is reassembled wrong on the Ipr.
Ea time you remove the Ipr you introduce air into the hpo system. After reinstalling To help purge this air you can refill the hpop reservoir. Then open the bolt on drivers head, crank until oil runs out. Reapeat for passenger side. This will save a lot of cranking on your starter and batteries. Have someone crank it for you while you watch for this oil. You can read this procedure in written injector replacement instructions.
When I reassembled an Ipr with the needle backwards it would max fuel then the pcm would defuel. All in seconds of ea other. It sounded like a loud lope on a giant hotrod. You will know if you did this.
Mod you have a no start due to low icp. 0psi and the Ipr is 65% so Ipr is commanding oil pressure. I would put my full attention to this. Since you have a new harness this rules out a bad pigtail. My guess is something is reassembled wrong on the Ipr.
Ea time you remove the Ipr you introduce air into the hpo system. After reinstalling To help purge this air you can refill the hpop reservoir. Then open the bolt on drivers head, crank until oil runs out. Reapeat for passenger side. This will save a lot of cranking on your starter and batteries. Have someone crank it for you while you watch for this oil. You can read this procedure in written injector replacement instructions.
Ok. Thanks. I guess I can syphon out the oil from reservoir before I remove IPR again to prevent the mess down my valley as well, not sure how much oil sits in the Hpop. I’ve taken IPR apart twice and both times things seemed in order, but readings suggest otherwise. .
I checked fuel pump, standpipe in fuel bowl, and all seems to be working ok, although I did not check the fuel pressure.
- The Excursion was starting and running prior to the "maintenance".
- The maintenance performed consisted of the following:
- Some things were not reconnected right away, but are now. Things like the MAP sensor tube and 42 pin connector.
- No puffs of smoke out of the exhaust pipe during an attempt to start.
- Fuel bowl is full.
- Fuel pump has not been verified to be working, but assumed to be working.
- Standpipe in fuel bowl has yet to be checked.
yes verified working under drivers side with key on, checked pump and standpipe piston seems to be fine
Originally Posted by Sous
- WTS light does come on.
- GPCM has not been checked for working order.
- Block heater has not been plugged in but the truck is in a garage. Unknown if the garage is climate controlled.
yes 15C in garage
Originally Posted by Sous
- IPR on order from Riffraff due to clues about the HPO oil system readings.
- IPR has been rebuilt since the "maintenance" items list noted above was accomplished.
- During buzz test video I only hear 7 injectors, no answer to the question I posed about that.
ipr rebuilt during maintenance and again a few days ago
buzz test fine. Started recording late.
Originally Posted by Sous
- IPR coil tested good with 10.3 which is within the 10.2 to 10.6 ohm specification.
Mod7.3 posted the below image which indicates a HPO issue. Both the IPR and ICP were plugged in at this time as I understand it.
- With ICP unplugged, the Excursion still would not start.
Mod7.3 posted the below image which does not indicate a HPO issue. IPR plugged in and ICP unplugged as I understand it.
- PATS is something I had not thought about because I don't know Jack **** about it.
- Battery voltage is within spec apparently, but has not been verified.
Originally Posted by Sous
- It is unknown to me if there is a chip on the PCM.
years ago ran a chip. Nothing now.
Originally Posted by Sous
- HPOP reservoir has oil in it.
- Air was introduced into the HPO system, but should be out by now after many, many cranking sessions.
- No Start Flow Chart should be run through by Mod7.3 because we are unable to see what he is seeing.
- Verified results are needed from the tests being run.
This was said...
Did I miss anything Mod7.3?
.
that’s about it
Originally Posted by Sous
Starting a 7.3 really is quite simple as long as there is fuel, high pressure oil, communication to the injectors and the PCM is working. Yes, there are other auxiliary systems that help the truck run efficiently, but the 7.3L is a robust engine that doesn't demand much to keep going. You are close, the finish is in sight!
Now, I must leave the FTE and go work on building a library for my wife that has been an ongoing project for the past 2 years... I will be back to see if any progress or further tests have been completed with verified results. Good luck to you Mod7.3 and I sincerely hope I see a "IT STARTED" post when I return.
I know it's a new harness but working in a maintenance field for 40 years I have seen many bad out of stock parts. The PCM is commanding the IPR to close and create higher pressure but that doesn't mean the IPR is getting the message. Might be a good test to put voltage directly to the IPR and see if pressure builds. See the following video and at the 2 minute mark he goes over jumping the IPR.
Absolutely i would pump out the reservoir before removing ipr. After you reinstall the new one refill the reservoir and use the oil galley head plugs to bleed the hpo system. I think the reservoir holds half a qt or less. Its noted above but you need to see 500psi icp for your rig to start. At 300 and over you should see some smoke. The motor will also sound like it wants to start. Leave the icp plugged in so you can monitor this value.
Its possible that the air in the hpo system hasn't worked out after the last time you had the ipr out. Especially if you didn't refill the reservoir. MAKE SURE YOU REINSTALL THE CAP ON HPOP before you go to crank the motor.
i wouldn't bother to check fuel pressure until you see 500 psi icp. If you get 500 min while cranking and it doesn't fire then i would check fuel pressure.
Absolutely i would pump out the reservoir before removing ipr. After you reinstall the new one refill the reservoir and use the oil galley head plugs to bleed the hpo system. I think the reservoir holds half a qt or less. Its noted above but you need to see 500psi icp for your rig to start. At 300 and over you should see some smoke. The motor will also sound like it wants to start. Leave the icp plugged in so you can monitor this value.
. Icp just under 200 so makes sense no smoke
Originally Posted by T-wood
Its possible that the air in the hpo system hasn't worked out after the last time you had the ipr out. Especially if you didn't refill the reservoir. MAKE SURE YOU REINSTALL THE CAP ON HPOP before you go to crank the motor.
you mean cap on top of reservoir? I Checked level and it was/is more than half full, and inch plus from the top.
Originally Posted by T-wood
i wouldn't bother to check fuel pressure until you see 500 psi icp. If you get 500 min while cranking and it doesn't fire then i would check fuel pressure.
ok.
“oil galley head plugs to bleed the hpo system”??? Same why you explained before?
I know it's a new harness but working in a maintenance field for 40 years I have seen many bad out of stock parts. The PCM is commanding the IPR to close and create higher pressure but that doesn't mean the IPR is getting the message. Might be a good test to put voltage directly to the IPR and see if pressure builds. See the following video and at the 2 minute mark he goes over jumping the IPR.
Yes watched this guy a few times. i assume I can get that IPR plug at most auto stores? Thoughts on the IPR reading 32 (from 64) when I attempted start with icp unplugged?
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