Notices

400 Refresh

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 26, 2018 | 11:50 PM
  #301  
Aaron-71's Avatar
Aaron-71
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 19
From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Club FTE Gold Member
So update time. More issues popped up.

reset idle, and changed A/F ratio to help it out at idle. Got it running a bit smoother and quiet but then I could suddenly hear a distinct "tick". Grabbed a long piece of 1/2" hose as a stethoscope, and found the tick coming the passenger side exhaust/intake lifter for cylinder #2. The tick was most notable at the #2 intake runner.

Checked vacuum, pulling 14 Hg now instead of 15.5... hmmmm....

Pulled the valve covers and checked the rocker arm torques. Some of them were off by 1-2 ft-lbs, but none were loose. Pulled all the spark plugs before retorquing, and used the proper rocker arm tightening pattern by using the TDC, 180*, 270* trick to speed things up. Each rocker was within an 1/8th of a turn of the torque wrench set at 24ft-lbs - all was good.

When I pulled the spark plugs... holy moly... 4 of 8 were solid black soot, the other 4 were showing signs of a better burn (pics coming tomorrow), but all of them were oily on the threads. Cleaned them up with a rag, threw on dielectric grease on the threads and reinstalled in all the same cylinders.

Retorqued the intake to 28 ft-lbs, using the correct pattern (cross pattern).

Reinstalled the valve covers, and started her up.

It was running even more rough now, although I hadn't touched the carb since I had it running smoothly before retorquing everything. Now instead of 14 hg of vacuum, it has 12 hg of vacuum. Shook like it was running extremely rough, and the tick was much more noticeable now.

used the 1/2 hose trick again as a stethoscope... yup, same area as before... sounds like it's coming from intake runner on passenger side (cylinder #2 again).

Sprayed down the cold motor with flammable carb cleaner... no vacuum leaks... sprayed around the intake, nothing. Sprayed the vacuum hoses, nothing. Sprayed the air horn on the carb... dropped idle by 200 RPM pretty quickly - seems like there's no vacuum leaks at the intake.

so looks like I need to check a few more things:
1) forgot to spray down the base of the carb to see if there's a leak there.
2) need to retorque the exhaust manifolds, hasn't been done since the first start up.
3) I'm thinking that tick may be a bad lifter - anyone else want to venture a guess?
4) need to check timing - maybe I'm off by a lot although I havent changed it since I first found out I was reading it incorrectly. Should still be set at about 36 degrees total.
5) need to do a cold compression test
6) need to do a hot compression test
7) I probably should pull the intake and see what the heck is going on under it.
8) maybe the head gaskets are bad since the motor tried overheating when I had it at 7 degrees ATDC during the first 200 kms? Swap out for new head gaskets??
9) spark plugs should get replaced??? Once you see the photos you might agree with at least 4 of them lol.

anything else I should be checking? Comments / suggestions welcomed.
 
Reply
Old Sep 27, 2018 | 07:19 AM
  #302  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi Aaron,

I don't like your update.

When you started hearing the tick, had you changed your timing at all ? (What exactly did you do prior to the tick ?)

I forget what oil on plug threads means, but have a good look at your plugs.

If they have a washer (or something like that) they need to be torqued to a specific torque.

I never used to, I would hand tighten them, then 1/4 turn, or whatever it is, and it was about 1/2 turn too little compared to correct torquing !

Good news is that the drop in vacuum and crap idle, assuming it was immediately after lifter load checking only, is due to too much preload on one or more lifters.

Mark your damper into 4 quarters, then start at number 1 cylinder at TDC and check the preloads, and turn the damper to the next 1/4 mark and check preloads in the firing order.

It's a bit slower than the method you used, but it confirms without a doubt that all valves are closed when checking them.

What was the vacuum gauge needle behaviour like ?
 
Reply
Old Sep 27, 2018 | 01:45 PM
  #303  
Aaron-71's Avatar
Aaron-71
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 19
From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by FMJ.
Hi Aaron,

I don't like your update.

When you started hearing the tick, had you changed your timing at all ? (What exactly did you do prior to the tick ?)

I forget what oil on plug threads means, but have a good look at your plugs.

If they have a washer (or something like that) they need to be torqued to a specific torque.

I never used to, I would hand tighten them, then 1/4 turn, or whatever it is, and it was about 1/2 turn too little compared to correct torquing !

Good news is that the drop in vacuum and crap idle, assuming it was immediately after lifter load checking only, is due to too much preload on one or more lifters.

Mark your damper into 4 quarters, then start at number 1 cylinder at TDC and check the preloads, and turn the damper to the next 1/4 mark and check preloads in the firing order.

I am lucky that my damper is already marked with 90, 180, 270, and TDC marks. I rotated the motor to TDC, then to 180*, then another 3/4 of a turn to 270* (as indicated by the rebuild book for Ford 400's that I bought). Almost all of the pushrods had zero load on them which indcated to me that I was on the base circle of the cam - I could rotate the push rods with my fingers while the rockers were still tight. There was no up-down movement of the pushrods, but I could spin them freely.

However.... I'm wondering if I should be pulling my intake and inspecting everything regardless.... I'm wondering if my pushrod lengths are incorrect? Or maybe I have a collapsed lifter??

Can someone check the measurements/geometry for me?
Lifters = FB900 is the part number listed, but I assume that's in reference to the camshaft = Part No. 322414 - Xtreme Energy
K32-241-4
Rocker arm kit = MRK547
Pushrods = MPR310

The block was decked/squared, the heads were milled 0.008". The machine shop told me before I left with the motor back in January that I MAY need rocker arm shims to accomodate for the difference in valve train geometry.... Could this be my problem? Is this typically required for when a block is decked and heads are milled by only 0.008"???



It's a bit slower than the method you used, but it confirms without a doubt that all valves are closed when checking them.

What was the vacuum gauge needle behaviour like ?
I don't like my update either!!!! Was hoping to be burning the meaty rubbers off that F250 by this point - but lots of stuff during the summer has kept me from doing that lol.

What I did before the tick came up was exactly what I wrote above.

I will admit, there was a point around the same time that I solved my overheating issues (due to timing) that I thought I noticed a "tick", but I never searched for it and assumed it was a piece of plastic/electrical connector shaking hitting something. It was VERY faint - so faint that I thought it might be an electrical connector hitting the firewall (plastic hitting metal sound). I really should have jumped out of my seat and searched for it back then... But like I said, it was VERY faint.

I have not pulled the plugs at all since I broken in the motor (they have no washer, so I just tighten by feel) - overheating, playing with timing, and having a stooopidly rich mixture is likely the cause of the plugs looking like this (time for new plugs methinks? What does youthinks? Lol):

Cylinder #1


Cylinder #2 - surprisingly looks normal even though this is the same cylinder with the "tick"


Cylinder #3 - looks even better than 2. No tick from what I can tell.


Cylinder #4 - black and sooty.


Here are Cylinders 5 through 8 (left to right).


Pulling roughly 12" of mercury.... Needle was VERY Steady. Every 20 seconds or so, it would move a hair left then a hair back to where it was. Any movement the needle DID have was not constant or consistent - overall it was basically dead steady.


Gauges - oil pressure sitting at roughly 37.5 psi at hot idle. Temp gauge was at 130*F on the water pump, and below the "N" in "NORMAL" on the factory gauge.


Ran stooopidly rough. Tried to rev it up a bit to drop the idle from a cold start and it DID NOT like it at all.

Any movement of the pedal felt like a GIANT hesitation for a good "one one thousand" count, and lots of stumbling before it made up its mind to rev higher.
 
Reply
Old Sep 27, 2018 | 03:10 PM
  #304  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
I should have been more specific, so just to double check.

I meant, check both exhaust and intake lifter preloads on the same cylinder, in the firing order. (A)

As opposed to, for example, set intake 3 and exhaust 2, when the damper is at 180*. (B)

Did you do B ?

If yes, try A.

If no, hmmmm.

0.008'' off the heads should not be a problem, but it depends how much was milled off the block.

It's quite possible that you have a dud lifter.

Ok, so all you did was reset the idle and that changed the A/F ratio, and bam, vacuum dropped !!

Did you do any other carb adjustment to change the A/F ratio ?

I remember comments about low vacuum and spark plugs during the build. I'll have to read this thread from the start again.

I don't think your head gaskets are an issue.

Was that 12'' vacuum with full manifold vac adv connected ?

Sorry I can't be more helpful at the moment. I'm distracted with brake things.



 
Reply
Old Sep 27, 2018 | 05:34 PM
  #305  
Aaron-71's Avatar
Aaron-71
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 19
From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by FMJ.
I should have been more specific, so just to double check.

I meant, check both exhaust and intake lifter preloads on the same cylinder, in the firing order. (A)

As opposed to, for example, set intake 3 and exhaust 2, when the damper is at 180*. (B)

Did you do B ?

If yes, try A.

If no, hmmmm.

0.008'' off the heads should not be a problem, but it depends how much was milled off the block.

It's quite possible that you have a dud lifter.

Ok, so all you did was reset the idle and that changed the A/F ratio, and bam, vacuum dropped !!

Did you do any other carb adjustment to change the A/F ratio ?

I remember comments about low vacuum and spark plugs during the build. I'll have to read this thread from the start again.

I don't think your head gaskets are an issue.

Was that 12'' vacuum with full manifold vac adv connected ?

Sorry I can't be more helpful at the moment. I'm distracted with brake things.
Yes I did B, I have no tried A - I'll give it a try!

The block was decked to be true and square - not exactly sure how much came off of it but I think I could find out with a single phone call.

Ok, so all you did was reset the idle and that changed the A/F ratio, and bam, vacuum dropped !! Nope - Here's what I did:
Reset idle (so it wouldn't die) - vacuum was pulling 15.5
Changed A/F ratio to be leaner.
Reset idle again (for 750 rpms) - vacuum was pulling 14
Pulled and wiped the oil from spark plugs.
Retorqued the rockers - 24 ft-lbs.
Retorqued the intake - 32 ft-lbs.
Reinstalled spark plugs with dielectric grease on the threads to help connectivity - hand tightened.
Fired it up.
Checked vacuum - pulling 12.0 (it was running really rough)
Played with A/F ratio and idle - it is still running really rough
Checked vacuum again - pulling 12.0
Sprayed carb cleaner everywhere to try and find the vacuum leak - did not find one. My RPMs increased when I sprayed it down the throat of the carb, so I guess that means I'm still running rich???

I have a plastic "T" connected between the dizzy and the carb that allows me to hook up my vacuum gauge between them. When I was done checking vacuum, I remove the "T", and reinstalled the carb vacuum line directly to the dizzy (full manifold vacuum as always!).

Wondering if I maybe torqued the intake too tight or something... that would explain the decrease in vacuum.... but it should have shown up with how much I hosed down the intake with flammable carb cleaner....
 
Reply
Old Sep 27, 2018 | 11:32 PM
  #306  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
I think you'll agree that it is 'too coincidental' that the vacuum got sick just after the lifter adjustments.

Ok, there' nothing wrong with method B, but I found that one has to concentrate a lot on which valve is doing what, and it's easy to get it wrong.

Good, try method A (cold engine), but double check that the dizzy rotor is pointing at the number 1 cylinder HT lead when the damper is at 0*.

Did you check that when you did method B ?

I had recognised that you had leaned out the carb, as was evident with the vacuum drop.
But the plugs say otherwise !
To be honest, reading them at idle is not a fair reading.

I use dielectric grease on the plug tips where the cap clips onto, but not on the threads (not needed).

If I were to use anything on the threads, it would be copper slip (anti seize).

LOL, I remembered that you used full manifold vac adv, but I had to check !! (12* with full manifold vac adv, at your altitude, is really bad )

The plugs should be something like 10-15 ft-lbs. (Hand tight is a no no)
Check your manual for the exact torque settings.
Just for curiosity, when you get the setting, tighten one plug the way use usually do, and then torque it. (Any difference in the number of tightening turns ?)

''Reset idle (so it wouldn't die)'' . That's a new one ! How long has that been a problem ?

When I've read the thread again, I'll work out how much theoretically was decked, but go ahead and make that call as it will be interesting to know how much they say was taken off.
 
Reply
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 03:34 AM
  #307  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha, I miss the banter with Filthy Beast.

Ok, here's your benchmark. Post 4 states 19'' vacuum at idle with full manifold vac adv connected. That is perfect for an altitude of +/- 1,900 feet.

It also states cranking pressures of +/- 140.

The low vacuum has been an issue since the rebuild, and was mentioned in posts 288, 293, and 301.

Only focusing on lifter preload for now, and asssuming that 0* on the damper is accurate, and assuming the cam timing gears were installed at 0* :

Turning the motor by hand, with the spark plugs removed, observe that the intake and exhaust rockers, on a given cylinder, will be higher or lower than each other.

So, when you get to TDC on cylinder one, with the dizzy rotor facing the number 1 cylinder HT lead, both rockers should be at the same height as each other (both high, not low).

That's a very handy visual confirmation that both valves are indeed closed.

You'll end up turning the damper 360* twice.

Hopefully the lifters are still pumped up if you check the preloads on a cold engine.

Once all the preloads are set, post up if there were any major 'misloads'.

Next task after that is to warm up the engine, remove plugs again, hold open the carb butterflies, and note the cranking pressures per cylinder, and post the numbers.

Hopefully they are all +/- 180.

Once you've finished that task, we can chat about EZ/Fumoto valves. (Yeah, right ! LOL)

The theoretical block milling is 0.005''.
 
Reply
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 09:36 AM
  #308  
Crop Duster's Avatar
Crop Duster
Logistics Pro
Veteran: Air Force
10 Year Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,463
Likes: 954
From: Tri Cities, TN
Club FTE Silver Member

Your loss of vacuum is likely ignition related considering your comment on the plugs. Pull the valve cover on the offending side and start it up. Look to see if all the pushrods are rotating if one on the #2 cyl. isn't you may be loosing a lobe on the cam. It won't take a long time to figure it out they will be turning or they won't.
PS Get rid of those plugs and get some regular old plugs those things are for new engines that run combustion temps hotter than the sun. And don't get carried away with the gaps it will just cause arcing inside the distributor cap.
 

Last edited by Crop Duster; Sep 28, 2018 at 09:43 AM. Reason: more words
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

 Brett Foote
story-2

Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

 Verdad Gallardo
story-4

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

 Brett Foote
story-6

2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026

 Brett Foote
story-9

5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time

 Joe Kucinski
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 12:36 PM
  #309  
Aaron-71's Avatar
Aaron-71
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 19
From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by FMJ.
I think you'll agree that it is 'too coincidental' that the vacuum got sick just after the lifter adjustments.
Agreed, However it only went from 14-ish to 12-ish. I know that's ridiculously unhealthy for a fresh motor, but 2* isn't a big drop. I do still agree that it's likely lifter/rocker/spark plug related.

Ok, there' nothing wrong with method B, but I found that one has to concentrate a lot on which valve is doing what, and it's easy to get it wrong.
Good, try method A (cold engine), but double check that the dizzy rotor is pointing at the number 1 cylinder HT lead when the damper is at 0*.
Did you check that when you did method B ?
Yes. Damper was on 0 degrees (TDC). Rotor on dizzy cap was pointing at the #1 cylinder (roughly 1-o-clock position if standing in front of the motor - double checked that in reference to the dizzy cap and it matched perfectly)

I had recognised that you had leaned out the carb, as was evident with the vacuum drop.
But the plugs say otherwise !
To be honest, reading them at idle is not a fair reading.
What did you mean by this? I leaned out the carb because the exhaust stunk SOOOOOO badly that there was no way I wasn't running rich. When I pulled the plugs, it confirmed that I was running VERY rich (black soot).
Leaning out the carb will give a vacuum drop, but by 2*??


I use dielectric grease on the plug tips where the cap clips onto, but not on the threads (not needed).
If I were to use anything on the threads, it would be copper slip (anti seize).
LOL, I remembered that you used full manifold vac adv, but I had to check !! (12* with full manifold vac adv, at your altitude, is really bad )
The plugs should be something like 10-15 ft-lbs. (Hand tight is a no no)
Check your manual for the exact torque settings.
Just for curiosity, when you get the setting, tighten one plug the way use usually do, and then torque it. (Any difference in the number of tightening turns ?)
Yes of course there will be less turns lol. I should have used my torque wrench. Next time I will lol.

''Reset idle (so it wouldn't die)'' . That's a new one ! How long has that been a problem ?
This should have been better explained on my part - I technically didn't need to reset the idle and it doesn't die if I don't reset it before messing with the A/F mixture. When I originally fiddled with the carb (a long while back), it was mistakenly richening the mixture (pulling the A/F screws out or counter-clock-wise), when what I was trying to achieve was leaning out the mixture (clockwise or turning the A/F screw in more). I eventually re-read the carb manual and found out my mistake LOL.

So what I meant was that I increased the idle (just in case I screwed up the rich/lean thing again), then backed it down after I had adjusted for the motor to be more lean.

Ideally, this is what I was trying to achieve - From the Edelbrock Manual - "
This is a Lean-Best Idle Set. Setting richer than this will not improve idle quality or performance, but could tend to foul plugs."


When I've read the thread again, I'll work out how much theoretically was decked, but go ahead and make that call as it will be interesting to know how much they say was taken off.
Originally Posted by FMJ.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha, I miss the banter with Filthy Beast.

Ok, here's your benchmark. Post 4 states 19'' vacuum at idle with full manifold vac adv connected. That is perfect for an altitude of +/- 1,900 feet.
It also states cranking pressures of +/- 140.
Yes that's correct. But don't forget that in post #4, I also stated that the vacuum advance arm inside the dizzy was not hooked up properly as shown in the picture in Post#4 - the arm was completely disconnect from the nipple and the E-clip was missing.. Not sure if we can trust my original 19* of vacuum.

The low vacuum has been an issue since the rebuild, and was mentioned in posts 288, 293, and 301.
Only focusing on lifter preload for now, and asssuming that 0* on the damper is accurate, and assuming the cam timing gears were installed at 0* :
Both should be assumed true. Damper was not confirmed as "accurate" (not sure how one would do this without pulling a head off), but the timing chain was installed 0* (confirmed) - I zoomed in very close on pictures from post #113, and it's "straight up".

Turning the motor by hand, with the spark plugs removed, observe that the intake and exhaust rockers, on a given cylinder, will be higher or lower than each other.
So, when you get to TDC on cylinder one, with the dizzy rotor facing the number 1 cylinder HT lead, both rockers should be at the same height as each other (both high, not low).
That's a very handy visual confirmation that both valves are indeed closed.
You'll end up turning the damper 360* twice.
Sounds like basically the same method as A), but instead of concentrating on the valve, you're concentrating on the cylinder. So from TDC, I'm rotating the motor 2 times, and checking each cylinder (for both valves to be HIGH and the SAME) in the firing order? So I'll be checking 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 in that order?

Hopefully the lifters are still pumped up if you check the preloads on a cold engine.
Once all the preloads are set, post up if there were any major 'misloads'.
Just so I'm on the same page... checking lifter preload would require a feeler gauge to ensure that it's meeting the 0.060" gap specification (based on my rebuild manual) between the rocker arm and the valve stem would it not? Otherwise the only way to check it is with an adjustable rocker, then compare that zero lash measurement with the adjustable rocker to the pushrods that are in my engine. Correct?

Next task after that is to warm up the engine, remove plugs again, hold open the carb butterflies, and note the cranking pressures per cylinder, and post the numbers.
Hopefully they are all +/- 180.
Once you've finished that task, we can chat about EZ/Fumoto valves. (Yeah, right ! LOL)
The theoretical block milling is 0.005''.
I should call and get that value for milling off the block. Not sure if he recorded it tho... And yes, lets hope it's 180!!!!

Originally Posted by Crop Duster
Your loss of vacuum is likely ignition related considering your comment on the plugs. Pull the valve cover on the offending side and start it up. Look to see if all the pushrods are rotating if one on the #2 cyl. isn't you may be loosing a lobe on the cam. It won't take a long time to figure it out they will be turning or they won't.
PS Get rid of those plugs and get some regular old plugs those things are for new engines that run combustion temps hotter than the sun. And don't get carried away with the gaps it will just cause arcing inside the distributor cap.
Good to know CropDuster. Any suggestions for a Part Number / Brand I should go with for new plugs? They're cheap, so there's really no reason for me not to swap out the plugs now. Sucks that I made these ones sooooooo black.

When you pull a valve cover to check the pushrods are rotating... do you mark them with a paint pen or something??? Otherwise how would you tell that they're moving? Can't really think of a good way to show that they're spinning without touching them (but that's dangerous!)

Thanks for the comments guys. I'll try my best to keep this short and sweet lol. Responses are above in RED
 
Reply
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 01:38 PM
  #310  
Crop Duster's Avatar
Crop Duster
Logistics Pro
Veteran: Air Force
10 Year Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,463
Likes: 954
From: Tri Cities, TN
Club FTE Silver Member

Just regular old Autolite 25's are fine. You should be able to see the pushrod rotate with the engine at idle. Look on you tube I'm certain someone has taken a video of one running with the cover off. Seems like TMI might have had one. There will be some oil flying around you just have to deal with it.
 
Reply
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 02:41 PM
  #311  
Aaron-71's Avatar
Aaron-71
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 19
From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by Crop Duster
Just regular old Autolite 25's are fine. You should be able to see the pushrod rotate with the engine at idle. Look on you tube I'm certain someone has taken a video of one running with the cover off. Seems like TMI might have had one. There will be some oil flying around you just have to deal with it.
Looks like I should just go back to the drawing board with my pushrods lol. This seems like a way easier method to adjust them for zero lash. EDIT: and then proper pre-load... I recall my Ford 400 /460 rebuild book (How To Rebuild Ford Engines by Tom Monroe) was extremely similar to what this guy said in the video below for setting proper valve lash / lifter preload.

Thanks for the quick response on the sparkplugs! I'ma go pick some up today and keep those other ones in case of an emergency lol (you never know!)
 
Reply
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 03:26 PM
  #312  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
That's neat the way you quote and edit.

I'm not clever enough to do that.

Following the same sequence as the post with red comments, I'd say that 2'' vacuum drop is a big drop, in the context of this particular engine.

Apologies for stating what is probably obvious, like the damper being at 0*, but I want to make no assumptions.

Initially I thought that you had set the carb to a lean idle, and 'assumed' (oops) it had been lean for a while, so didn't expect to see 'too rich' plugs.

I didn't realise the extent of the rich mix until you mentioned the strong tell tale smell.

Ok, the plug colours are probably misleading at this stage as they reflect the end of a rich mixture and the start of a leaner mixture.

That said, don't get new plugs just yet as several of the ones in the pictures show heat range issues. (No surprise at all, and predicted in post 136 or 141.)

Let's say you used to tighten the plug finger tight, and then give it 1/8 turn.

Do that again with a plug, then torque it. It might end up at something like finger tight, + 1/8 turn, + an additional 1/2 turn.

Not being torqued might be the reason for the oil on the threads.

You'd mentioned crud in the plug holes in post 130.

I assumed these were thoroughly cleaned. Hmmm, yet another assumption. LOL

Haha, the idle mixture screwing out instead of screwing in makes 100% sense. I remember doing that once as well ! LOL

Post 4 should contain a warning ! LOL. That dizzy was finished !

Yes, I read that you had re-attached the vac adv arm, and 'assumed' the 19'' was accurate.

It doesn't matter though, 19'' at +/- 2,000 feet, with full manifold vac adv, is what I got when travelling at altitude, and that's what we should aim at for your engine too.

One can use a piston stop to confirm true TDC.

For now though, once you see the valves are both closed on cylinder 1, via the rocker levels, if the damper is at +/- 0*, that will be fine.

5* out, say, will not drop/increase the vacuum significantly for our testing purposes.

Yes, using method B makes one look at one valve in one cylinder, and one valve in another cylinder.

Method A makes one look at both valves, in the same cylinder, per the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order.

What rebuild manual are you using ?

0.060'' sounds too small. I recall +/- 0.10'' - 0.20''.

Triple check that !!

I binned the non adjustable crap about 10 years ago and bought adjustable rollers coz I don't like 'non user friendly' things, so I'm rusty on the OE adjustments in detail.

If I recall, torquing the nuts to spec didn't guarantee the correct clearance and I just about remember having to tighten or loosen nuts to set the desired clearance.

Don't worry about getting the block milled figures unless you are curious.

Haha, running the engine without valve covers will make you swear, and then some. It takes forever to clean up the mess. Ask me how I know.

Get a cheap a$$ set of covers and cut 'em open, like the pic below.

You can observe if the oil deflectors, via the push rods, are all getting loads of oil while you're there.











 
Reply
Old Sep 28, 2018 | 03:30 PM
  #313  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Haha, you found a video.

I'll watch that in the morning.

Hmm, that might have saved me 1/2 hour writing that last post. LOL
 
Reply
Old Sep 29, 2018 | 08:42 AM
  #314  
FMJ.'s Avatar
FMJ.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 723
Likes: 3
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Well that video is 22 minutes longer than it needs to be !

There is no lash on hydraulic lifters, only solid lifters.

The rockers in the video are adjustable. Are yours ?

Please post up if it's a yes or no before proceeding.

If yes, proceed as discussed already.

If no, and it looks like a no, start with cylinder 1, as discussed, and measure the distance between the valve tip and rocker on both valves with a feeler gauge. Record the amounts.

Loosen the nut, then set it to 20 ft lbs, not 24, and measure the gaps again. Record the amounts.

The before and after numbers are important.

Then go on to cylinder 3 etc and do exactly the same thing. Then post up the 32 numbers.

DO NOT change the plugs, in fact do not change anything other than the nut torques.

Do not run the engine with no valve cover either.

When you're done, warm the engine, which will be smoother, record the vacuum number and post it up.

The Tom Monroe book is brilliant. Read the left hand column on page 118.

Read the bottom right hand side of page 117 with regard to the 0.006'' you mentioned earlier.

If it doesn't make sense now, no worries, it will soon.



\
 
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2018 | 12:18 PM
  #315  
Aaron-71's Avatar
Aaron-71
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 19
From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Club FTE Gold Member
Well I wish I would have read your post before fiddling around some more.

I pulled the passenger side valve cover to inspect what was going on and decided to just pull all of the rockers off and start over (before reading your post).

I have not checked with a feeler gauge, nor have I tried method A) yet. I'm going to give method A a try sometime this week, but I'll record how big of a feeler gauge I can get between the rocker and the valve tip before starting (for the third time lol).

I pulled all of the spark plugs so I could do a compression test after resetting the rockers and preload. Compression results are below:

(COLD PSI)
Cylinder #1 - 188
Cylinder #2 - 190
Cylinder #3 - 181
Cylinder #4 - 178
Cylinder #5 - 170
Cylinder #6 - 173
Cylinder #7 - 170
Cylinder #8 - 177

Since I had all the spark plugs out, I put them back in with a torque wrench this time. WOW, I WAYYYYYYYY over-tightened them last time. With a torque wrench, it's basically equivalent to finger tight + 1/32 of a turn. I was doing finger tight + 1/2 a turn... Whooops!

Fired her up and I gained back some vacuum where it now sits at 15 inches of mercury (was at 12).. still not high enough... Needle is still dead steady on the vacuum gauge.

I leaned out the carb some more, found that I was still roughly 1 turn out too far on both A/F screws.... Followed the Eddy Carb Manual to the T and I think I finally achieved the best "lean idle state":
1) Turn in A/F screw #1 until you get a gain of 40 rpm or more.
2) Reset idle to 750.
3) Repeat 1 + 2 until no rpm gain is achieved.
4) Turn in A/F screw #2 until you get a gain of 40 rpm or more.
5) Reset idle to 750.
6) Repeat 4 + 5 until no rpm gain is achieved.
7) Turn both A/F screws out to get a drop in rpm (20 RPM total drop).
8) Reset idle to 750.

Once I had the carb reset with idle, I thought I could hear the tick again... arg!!! Pulled out my "hose stethoscope" and yup, I can hear it..... I stuck my ear next to the exhaust pipe, and I can hear it there too!!! Noooooooo!!!! Dang!

Once the motor was warm, carb was reset for A/F (the nasty exhaust smell is GONE), idle was set to 750 rpm, vacuum was 15 hg... and the tick is still there. I pulled out the flammable carb cleaner to try and see if I have a vacuum leak. I sprayed allllllllll over the place - nothing. No significant drops in RPM, no gains in rpm... nothing...

I sprayed the base of the carb, the base of the carb riser, the back of the intake, the front of the intake, the sides of the intake, the back of the block, around the vacuum lines, everywhere... nothing changed the rpms no matter how much I soaked the top end in carb cleaner.

Decided to throw in the towel for the day. Small victory by gaining some vacuum... but not good enough for me! I wanna see 19-20 inches of vacuum, no tick, and a smooth running motor!

This battle is FAR from over. I just need warmer weather lol - I did all of the above when it was 0 Celsuis outside. My hands were cold!!!!

So I guess in conclusion of the weekend, I gained back some vacuum but the tick is still there. I have my carb leaned out some more, and really need to solve this valve train issue.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:31 AM.

story-0
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

Slideshow: Top 10 Ford truck tragedies.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-18 19:34:33


VIEW MORE
story-1
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

And it might be even better than that.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-18 19:26:42


VIEW MORE
story-2
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Slideshow: Does lowering an F-150 Lobo RUIN the ride quality?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-18 19:20:37


VIEW MORE
story-3
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Slideshow: Ford's bizarre fishing-themed Explorer concept has resurfaced after spending decades largely forgotten.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:07:46


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Slideshow: The 10 best Ford truck engines we miss the most.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 13:09:47


VIEW MORE
story-5
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

Slideshow: first look at the 810 hp 2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road!

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-12 12:50:07


VIEW MORE
story-6
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

Slideshow: Everything You Need to Know about the 2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-07 17:51:06


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!

Slideshow: 10 most surprising Ford truck options/features in 2026.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 11:17:22


VIEW MORE
story-8
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026

Slideshow: Here are the top 10 Fords coming to Mecum Indy 2026.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-04 13:49:49


VIEW MORE
story-9
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time

Slideshow: The 5 best and 5 worst Ford truck wheels of all time

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 16:49:01


VIEW MORE