And it's gone!

I was worried about it being a ring squeak, too, yardbird.

However, I took the whole top end apart and cleaned it. Some mildly abrasive scrubbing to remove the glazed on break-in lube. For good measure, I pulled all the lifters and inspected them (they looked great).

While the spark plugs were out and the rocker arms off, it was whisper quiet.

Put it all back together and fired it up, and no more squeak!
That was driving me *nuts*. I simply couldn't rest easy until I got rid of it.

 

Good job!!! I know how you feel. That squeak would have driven me crazy, and I would not have rested until I found and fixed it.

 

Yes, great to hear. I can say for myself, and probably others, I'm glad you documented this build so well. It gives the rest of us something to go by and refer to when we run into problems.

I dragged an '88 block out of the corner today and will start putting it together - and I'll have a thread soon - but any problems I will look at this and any other FTE builds and see if it's here first.

 

Well, that was a short lived victory.

I took it for a long drive today (about 100 miles) through the mountains, lots of compression braking, etc. It sounded great through the whole drive. But then, after I got home, I let it sit for a few and then fired it up. Boom. The high pitched chirp sound was back.


I'm not totally sure what to do about it. And it sounds terrible.

I did, however, do another compression test after my hearty drive today:

1. 172
2. 171
3. 172
4. 165
5. 168
6. 168


I'm going to track down another valve cover so I can cut the top off and work on the rockers while it's running. The card board box I used before was meager at best, and was so soaked with oil it came apart when I was done.

Any ideas on the sound?

 

It's my pleasure. It's been a great learning experience, and has been fun to share. And I know I've personally gained and learned so much from other people's willingness to share, that it's great to give back.

 

Can definitely hear it in that video. It seems you're on the right track with the rockers, but it's weird getting that sound.

A cut off cover will be a great tool for isolating the sound.

 

I have plenty of old valve covers, let me know.

 

Are you sure you are getting enough oil flow thru the pushrods?

 

I'll definitely take you up on that! Thanks!

There is *plenty* of oil coming through the push rods. If you watch the first video I posted with the valve cover off, you can see that it's everywhere.

However, that does beg the question. If you look at the video, you'll see that instead of squirting oil onto the top of the rocker arm, the oil squirt completely clears it. I think on the stock setup, the stud was tall enough to get in the way and made oil splash everywhere when the stream struck it. Mine are much shorter, so the oil squirts right over the top.

I don't know if that's the real issue, but it might be a factor.

Granted, every time I pull the valve cover, the tops of each rocker arm are a lake of oil.

 

I was talking to my machinist today and we're still thinking that, for some reason, the rocker arms aren't being properly oiled. He suggested a grooved rocker arm ball (for oil retention) so I tracked these down and ordered up a set.



I figured $18 to give them a try and see if they cure the issue is a lot less expensive than a set of roller rockers.


My carb tuning parts should be showing up today as well, so I'll see if I can cure my lean hesitation.


I do have a few more issues/questions though.

First:

When I set the idle timing by vacuum (which is how I've done it for years), it ends up being very high. Like around 25° advance. It doesn't matter what I do, idle mixture, base RPMs, etc. it just likes a really high idle advance. Performance Distributors assured me that the curve they put on it would still be ideal for my new engine, and that I shouldn't have to change anything. They say that it's designed to be set at 12° idle. (And yes, the vacuum advance is disconnected when I set it).
Any ideas on why this might be?

Secondly, I'm still having a real issue with surging/hesitating on hard acceleration. It seems that any time that the engine vacuum drops below 5hg on the vacuum gauge, the engine really struggles. My wideband O2 sensor reads a steady 11 - 12 AFR, so I can't see how this would be a lean issue.

When I first fire it up in the morning, it struggles to idle and there is around 10hg of engine vacuum until it warms up and then it's around 16 or so.

Overall, it just does not drive very well, and something seems wrong. It lacks power and oscillates and sputters on acceleration.

I can't tell if it's the carb, ignition, a combination of both, or if something is wrong inside (like the cam not degreed properly). Any ideas?

 

Ha! How in the heck did you find that pivot ball? Try it out. I do not like that burn mark. Have you considered that those oe rockers are just not designed to use the lift you are running? Nor the stress of the hp springs, etc.

Timing: Check on the other forum, tech link, the Classic inlines section, about timing with a v.gauge. Jon, at the now defunct Pony Carbs, was big on using a v.gauge to time. Check that section for timing with a v.gauge. An old rule I learned in H.S.: advance it till it pings, then pump it back.

Surge: I don't think it's your engine. Concentrate on the carb. Surging is lean. I seem to remember Fordman75 recommending a 50cc acc.pump. Do you now have that? Does the Holley 600 have it?

I'd try the 600 if it can be changed w/o $$. Good luck.

 

When we were talking about the sound, he asked if the ball was grooved or not, and when I said no, he asked if there was one available for it. We looked into it, and it looks like Melling makes one (Part # MRM1772). Rockauto has them for $0.88 each.

I'm with you on the stock rockers being maxed out with this set up. It's very possible. But, seeing as I don't have the $$$ to drop on some rollers at the moment, I need to get this issue addressed. If a better oiling ball can get me by in the mean time, I'm all for it.
But, if they are maxed out, I'm concerned for the longevity of the valve train with them. The side load on the valves could wear out the guides much quicker than they should.

Yeah, timing with a vacuum gauge is something I've done dozens of times, and probably something I've written up a "how to" on here about half as many. It's an effective, straight forward process that takes about 30 seconds when you know what you're doing. I'm just curious why it's so *HIGH*.

The 50cc pump is sitting on my porch right now. However, that's a different issue, and is just a lean spike when I push on the gas. That one makes sense.

However, this is with my foot on the gas, holding a steady throttle. The pedal isn't moving, so the pump isn't doing anything at all. At that point, it's all jets, and it's plenty rich. Secondly, if I'm at 5hg, I'm not even utilizing the full carb anyway, so I really don't think going to a 600cfm would do anything. At 5hg, the carb still has breath left.

But still, at a solid 11:1 - 12:1 AFR, surging/bucking from being lean makes absolutely no sense to me. Granted, I could try the 600, just to see. It'd take me about an hour to swap it over. This, from my experience, just doesn't feel carb related.

I also have my DSII ignition in a box, and I could throw that in as well to rule out the DUI. Maybe I somehow fried my ignition module or the coil and it's just not firing right?

All 6 plugs look just about the same, and they're light colored with a tan spot, but it cruises really well. It's just when I'm pushing it, like going uphill.

I also have a graph on my wideband that shows AFR over time, and when I am holding throttle, the line starts to get really jaggedy, like it's bouncing up and down. That seems odd to me as well.

Either way, I have an appointment on May 11th with a specialist that my machinist recommended who deals with this sort of stuff. Maybe he can sniff out what the issue is.

 

remember a few years back a member wrote about having to file a groove in his rockers to assist with the oiling process. I think it was in a thread related to changing rockers over to the higher ratio, other company's​, rockers. It may help if you can find the thread.

I'm just brainstorming here,... Is there any possibility that fuel isn't being delivered​ properly while you are experiencing your stumbles when steady on the gas? Maybe the fuel pump isn't keeping up at high volume but still operates well under it's max output.

 

Thanks for explaining all that, AB. I'm still suspicious of the carb though. It sat how long? Are you sure something didn't dry out and crack upon reuse?

Are you sure the linkage is free? looked down the throat and checked to see the plates open? If it would only take 30 minutes to eliminate the carb by changing to the 600, I'd do it.

If it is not carb related, then it is getting the fuel it needs. What could prevent it from revving and taking off? I would think ignition in that case.

I would write down all the possible causes, and then go through each item on the list (wires, cap, module, timing)rechecking with a flashlight and fine tooth comb each possible cause, going through your list like a pilot before flight.

You said it wanted 25* advance. Could that be a clue? You'll find the cause. And when you do, and make that first all out run, you're going to laugh your head off. Good luck.

When you installed the carb, after the vehicle sat, did you pump some fuel through the line before attaching to the carb? Just throwing out thoughts now.

 

Justin, this is an area I like to read about and learn, so have no expertise, but in reading the above blue highlighted statements, I wondered if perhaps the wideband AFR instrumentation is not reading correctly and perhaps the mixture is more lean than the readout?