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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 02:15 PM
  #5161  
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Actually, there have been drag cars made out of Mustangs and Camaros with diesels, and my friend Jamie got smoked at Bristol in his Roush Stage 3 by a modded 6.0L diesel 350 that was jacked up. I myself have beaten quite a few Mustang GTs with my stock 6.0L, but that is not my point.
I am not going to say that the diesel is faster than the gassser, or vice versa. The 6.0L PSD is a very fast truck though, and gets to speed in no time... which is faster I don't know, as I have only owned one 350, and it is a PSD. However if it is top speed you are talking about top speed, I have almost botomed out the speedo in my truck once (100mph), just to see if it would do it and it did indeed. The truck has absolutely no problem running 80mph all day long, and that is more than enough speed for me in this big ol' truck.
There are a lot of variables in speed. One of which is torque, which is critical for acceleration. It all boils down to making your peak horsepower and at what range. If you have a car that peaks at 5200RPM, then pulling the rev limiter and shifting at 7500RPM would cause a loss in power as well as gains in E/Ts.
All in all though, the diesel by design will have the torque advantage, which is good for racing, but can have a horsepower disadvantage which is also needed for horsepower. Plus, the added weight of a diesel engine would not make it practical for most racing applications, however it can and has been done. If you are planning on racing the truck, then a diesel is probably not the best choice, but then again neither would an 8,000# truck, for that matter. Just my humble $.02.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 02:17 PM
  #5162  
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 02:27 PM
  #5163  
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Originally Posted by autotheft686
Hello All, I'm new to FTE, so take it easy on me. I just switched from GMC to Ford and picked up a new 09 F250 6.8 V-10 with the 4.30 rear. My dad has a GMC 2500, Diesel and freeked out when I parked my Ford in his GMC driveway. HAHAHAHA. Love the truck, but am finding aftermarket parts rare. I want to "chip" the motor for better MPG, but finding the right product is proving elusive. SCT only apparently goes to up to 2007, and Bully Dog and anyother product won't support the 09 V-10. Any advice for a new Ford owner?? Pics on the way.....
Visit the V10 forum, and talk to Mike at 5-star - he has done at the very least, 2010 V10's I believe, using SCT hardware.

Originally Posted by autotheft686
BTW, reading through 434 pages of Ford owners arguing about gears, engine size and reliability is like two brothers arguing about who's got the better looking mother. DUH!
That is VERY accurate
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 03:36 PM
  #5164  
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Originally Posted by autotheft686
I am very frustrated though with the lack of products available. Do you know if SCT, Bullydog, ie... will support 2009 V-10's? Their website doesn't show it. I suppose I will have to pick up the phone and call. Thanks for the support.
Talk to Mike at 5 star tuning. He does custom tuners on SCT tuners, and is thought of by the V10 comunity to be the very best. I have a tuner from him on my 4.6 and can not say enough good things about both his custumer service and products.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 03:39 PM
  #5165  
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One thing I've noticed is that people have to start specifying WHICH PSD and WHICH V10 they are talking about.

Between the '99 7.3 and the 6.4L, there's a LOT of power difference
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 04:31 PM
  #5166  
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Originally Posted by autotheft686
BTW, reading through 434 pages of Ford owners arguing about gears, engine size and reliability is like two brothers arguing about who's got the better looking mother. DUH!
After driving 600+ miles today, thanks for the laugh. Reps sent.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 05:03 PM
  #5167  
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Originally Posted by TennesseeMustangPerf
Actually, there have been drag cars made out of Mustangs and Camaros with diesels, and my friend Jamie got smoked at Bristol in his Roush Stage 3 by a modded 6.0L diesel 350 that was jacked up. I myself have beaten quite a few Mustang GTs with my stock 6.0L, but that is not my point.

There are a lot of variables in speed. One of which is torque, which is critical for acceleration.

All in all though, the diesel by design will have the torque advantage, which is good for racing, but can have a horsepower disadvantage which is also needed for horsepower.
You missed the point of what I was saying. I didn't say a diesel couldn't be fast. I was saying that if you take two engines with the same hp, but one makes it at 3k rpm and the other makes it at 6k rpm, the one that makes it at 6k rpm is going to run a faster time. You are talking about a modded diesel vs a mustang with totally different hp numbers. I am talking about two stock trucks with the same hp, but vastly different rpms.

Yes, torque is important, but what people are not understanding is that CRANKSHAFT torque is NOT what is important. It is REAR WHEEL torque. You can take a 5.0 Mustang that came with a 2.73 rear end and put a 4.56 in it and the difference in off the line acceleration is huge. But it is still making the exact same crankshaft torque. I took a stock Mustang to Bristol and ran it with a 2.73, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10 and a 4.56 and the 4.56 was 2 seconds faster than the 2.73. Same engine, same torque, but different rear wheel torque.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 06:29 PM
  #5168  
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dare i ask if the v10 would be better than the psd when offroading?
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 06:34 PM
  #5169  
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500 lbs less should help off road. Other thing is plowing snow the V10 is not right on the front axle weight rating like a PSD.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 06:41 PM
  #5170  
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what do you mean the v10 is not right on the front axle weight rating?
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 06:43 PM
  #5171  
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Originally Posted by TennesseeMustangPerf
One of which is torque, which is critical for acceleration. It all boils down to making your peak horsepower and at what range.

All in all though, the diesel by design will have the torque advantage
Keep in mind that my math below is based on normal elevations and does not apply to people that every drive they make is at 15,000' elevation with a continuous 20% grade where they are pulling a 20,000 lb trailer and every 100 feet they have to stop and pull out again....

In the same gear, at the same speed, turning the same rpm(has to be under 3,500 for the psd) then yes, the engine making more crankshaft torque(psd) is going to put more torque to the ground. Take our v10 with a 3.73 and 6 speed manual versus our 6.4 with a 3.55 and 6 speed manual again. Pull out from a stop and run them to 3,000 rpm(peak hp for the 6.4). Just to save you the math, that is 255 wheel rpm for the diesel and 242 for the v10. At this point the v10 is making 257 hp and 450 crankshaft tq and the 6.4 350 hp and 6.13 crankshaft tq. Rear wheel torque is 5577 for the v10 and 7209 for the 6.4. I don't think too many of us would argue that the 6.4 isn't putting a whipping on the v10 at this point. But what happens around 3,000 rpm? The psd has to shift to second and the v10 is just now hitting its power band.

The 6.4 shifts to 2nd and pulls all the way to 3,000 rpm again. At this point it is turning 402 wheel rpm. The v10 has now pulled to 5200 rpm and is turning 419 wheel rpm. The 6.4 is still making 613 crankshaft torque and 350 hp and the v10 is now making 365 crankshaft torque and 362 hp. Rear wheel torque is now 4573 for the 6.4 and 4537 for the v10. Like it or not, at that speed, turning those rpms, the v10 is going to be able to pull the same weight as the 6.4 even though it is making 250 less crankshaft torque because they are both putting the same torque to the wheels. The only difference is the 6.4 is going to be turning 3,000 rpm in 2nd gear and the v10 is going to be turning 5,200 rpm's in 1st gear. The same applies in all other gears too. Hit a hill with both doing 55-60 mph, all the v10 has to do is downshift one gear and it will put the same power to the ground and stay right beside of the 6.4.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 07:27 PM
  #5172  
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Originally Posted by eff two fifty
what do you mean the v10 is not right on the front axle weight rating?
I said that poorly. What I mean is that you can put a plow on a V10 and not be so close to the front gross axle weight like a PSD would be, thanks to the 500 weight savings.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 11:08 PM
  #5173  
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Originally Posted by phillips91
Keep in mind that my math below is based on normal elevations and does not apply to people that every drive they make is at 15,000' elevation with a continuous 20% grade where they are pulling a 20,000 lb trailer and every 100 feet they have to stop and pull out again....

In the same gear, at the same speed, turning the same rpm(has to be under 3,500 for the psd) then yes, the engine making more crankshaft torque(psd) is going to put more torque to the ground. Take our v10 with a 3.73 and 6 speed manual versus our 6.4 with a 3.55 and 6 speed manual again. Pull out from a stop and run them to 3,000 rpm(peak hp for the 6.4). Just to save you the math, that is 255 wheel rpm for the diesel and 242 for the v10. At this point the v10 is making 257 hp and 450 crankshaft tq and the 6.4 350 hp and 6.13 crankshaft tq. Rear wheel torque is 5577 for the v10 and 7209 for the 6.4. I don't think too many of us would argue that the 6.4 isn't putting a whipping on the v10 at this point. But what happens around 3,000 rpm? The psd has to shift to second and the v10 is just now hitting its power band.

The 6.4 shifts to 2nd and pulls all the way to 3,000 rpm again. At this point it is turning 402 wheel rpm. The v10 has now pulled to 5200 rpm and is turning 419 wheel rpm. The 6.4 is still making 613 crankshaft torque and 350 hp and the v10 is now making 365 crankshaft torque and 362 hp. Rear wheel torque is now 4573 for the 6.4 and 4537 for the v10. Like it or not, at that speed, turning those rpms, the v10 is going to be able to pull the same weight as the 6.4 even though it is making 250 less crankshaft torque because they are both putting the same torque to the wheels. The only difference is the 6.4 is going to be turning 3,000 rpm in 2nd gear and the v10 is going to be turning 5,200 rpm's in 1st gear. The same applies in all other gears too. Hit a hill with both doing 55-60 mph, all the v10 has to do is downshift one gear and it will put the same power to the ground and stay right beside of the 6.4.
Here we go...I'll settle this...

Go buy yourself a stock V10, and come race my stock 6.4 for pinks. We'll do it 2 out of 3 like this...

Race 1: ***** to the wall, your truck against mine.
Race 2: We'll hook up a trailer of the same weight, and do the same thing.
Race 3: We'll hook up the same trailer, and shoot up (well, I'LL shoot up) Vail Pass.
Just for ****s and giggles, we'll compare mileage after all 3 also.

Please ensure your new truck is paid off beforehand like mine is as I don't want to have to pay for it. I'll try to find a reason to keep it, but I'll probably just sell it.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 11:15 PM
  #5174  
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I would be willing to do that with a stock truck of the same year range as mine. Not for pinks, but for $100 and them having " Bill's V10 can out tow my truck" in there sig. I am not enough of an *** to take somebodys truck just becuase its slower than mine.
 
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Old Jun 19, 2010 | 11:23 PM
  #5175  
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Originally Posted by phillips91
Keep in mind that my math below is based on normal elevations and does not apply to people that every drive they make is at 15,000' elevation with a continuous 20% grade where they are pulling a 20,000 lb trailer and every 100 feet they have to stop and pull out again....

In the same gear, at the same speed, turning the same rpm(has to be under 3,500 for the psd) then yes, the engine making more crankshaft torque(psd) is going to put more torque to the ground. Take our v10 with a 3.73 and 6 speed manual versus our 6.4 with a 3.55 and 6 speed manual again. Pull out from a stop and run them to 3,000 rpm(peak hp for the 6.4). Just to save you the math, that is 255 wheel rpm for the diesel and 242 for the v10. At this point the v10 is making 257 hp and 450 crankshaft tq and the 6.4 350 hp and 6.13 crankshaft tq. Rear wheel torque is 5577 for the v10 and 7209 for the 6.4. I don't think too many of us would argue that the 6.4 isn't putting a whipping on the v10 at this point. But what happens around 3,000 rpm? The psd has to shift to second and the v10 is just now hitting its power band.

The 6.4 shifts to 2nd and pulls all the way to 3,000 rpm again. At this point it is turning 402 wheel rpm. The v10 has now pulled to 5200 rpm and is turning 419 wheel rpm. The 6.4 is still making 613 crankshaft torque and 350 hp and the v10 is now making 365 crankshaft torque and 362 hp. Rear wheel torque is now 4573 for the 6.4 and 4537 for the v10. Like it or not, at that speed, turning those rpms, the v10 is going to be able to pull the same weight as the 6.4 even though it is making 250 less crankshaft torque because they are both putting the same torque to the wheels. The only difference is the 6.4 is going to be turning 3,000 rpm in 2nd gear and the v10 is going to be turning 5,200 rpm's in 1st gear. The same applies in all other gears too. Hit a hill with both doing 55-60 mph, all the v10 has to do is downshift one gear and it will put the same power to the ground and stay right beside of the 6.4.
Ummm, which rear end do I have since you claim to know EXACTLY how fast my wheels are turning?
 
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