A New Brownie thread . . .
Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 41
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See if this helps. It has most dimensions. Its about 11 inches wide. Total length varies with different yokes. I have never been able to directly post pictures in any of these posts.
yfrog Photo : http://yfrog.com/045831p Shared by
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Cross-Country
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 52
Likes: 4
Glad I found this thread. The wife and I are planning a trip to California at the end of the month . Its about 1300 miles for us,and our 53 F350 has 5.14/1 gears which= about a 45mph cruising speed......NOT!!!
Anyways,my plan is to find and install an aux trans. The truck is all original (88k miles) and i cant bring myself to put a T5 in it,and want to keep the stock Timken rear so i can stick with my 6 on 7.25 bolt pattern front and rear.
Does my stock 239 flattie have enough HP to run both trans,and still get out of its own way? Not building a race truck,and dont expect any miracles in the pulling dept,but want the truck to be more useable on the highway,and up hills. Plan to tow a small-medium trailer in the future.
I am open to all and any advice on this as I will be starting the project as soon as i have a plan.
Anyways,my plan is to find and install an aux trans. The truck is all original (88k miles) and i cant bring myself to put a T5 in it,and want to keep the stock Timken rear so i can stick with my 6 on 7.25 bolt pattern front and rear.
Does my stock 239 flattie have enough HP to run both trans,and still get out of its own way? Not building a race truck,and dont expect any miracles in the pulling dept,but want the truck to be more useable on the highway,and up hills. Plan to tow a small-medium trailer in the future.
I am open to all and any advice on this as I will be starting the project as soon as i have a plan.
Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Anyways,my plan is to find and install an aux trans. The truck is all original (88k miles) and i cant bring myself to put a T5 in it,and want to keep the stock Timken rear so i can stick with my 6 on 7.25 bolt pattern front and rear.
Does my stock 239 flattie have enough HP to run both trans,and still get out of its own way? Not building a race truck,and dont expect any miracles in the pulling dept,but want the truck to be more useable on the highway,and up hills. Plan to tow a small-medium trailer in the future.
I am open to all and any advice on this as I will be starting the project as soon as i have a plan.
A T5 would be a disaster. I destroyed 4 of them, my one ton eats the rear cluster bearing in under 1000 miles trying to use OD.
The aux box is exactly what you need. Trucks like yours is what it was designed for. It will allow you to split gears to climb the grades with more speed. You will be able to tow a trailer and reach highway speed in less time. It is the equivalent of adding a gear inbetween those you already have plus overdrive that will put you near 60. Do not get a deep OD. Stay with an OD of about .80 or .85.
If you get a lower number on the OD gear your engine will not have enough power, it will lug and eat up a lot more fuel.
The only real tips I can give on installation is that any three speed floor shifter from a van works great. Ford had a lot of them in the 70s. Make a bracket to attach to rear of main tranny in such a way that the shift rods run straight as possible. Any angle such as a drive line has will cause binding and excessive wear. Keep driveline between trannys as short as possible and perfectly in line. failure to do so will result in vibration and or excessive bearing and joint wear. The rear drive line may require the addition of CV joints due to increased angle. Best boxes to explore are the 5831 or 7031. A spicer 5831C will allow you to split gears both up and down. Any aux box with ratios that split more than .25 are not as useful. The shift patterns become difficult to remember.
A typical wide ratio 4 speed with a 3 speed Aux Box will drive like a nine speed. Plus you will have 3 seldom used low gears. with 5831 you can get 1.27 UD and .85OD. The 7031 can deliver much the same.
You have another 5 speed option if all you want is OD. Find a ford scattershield bellhousing and use an NV4500 from a chevy. This is much less work. You have to adapt the speedo output but overall it is much easier. Personally I favor the Aux Box because it will give you more towing ability at high altitude. Slow highway speeds are not all bad but 20 to 30 miles at 15 mph gets very irritating for you and the people behind you.
Just a little food for thought. I hope its somewhat useful.
George
Cross-Country
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 52
Likes: 4
A T5 would be a disaster. I destroyed 4 of them, my one ton eats the rear cluster bearing in under 1000 miles trying to use OD.
The aux box is exactly what you need. Trucks like yours is what it was designed for. It will allow you to split gears to climb the grades with more speed. You will be able to tow a trailer and reach highway speed in less time. It is the equivalent of adding a gear inbetween those you already have plus overdrive that will put you near 60. Do not get a deep OD. Stay with an OD of about .80 or .85.
If you get a lower number on the OD gear your engine will not have enough power, it will lug and eat up a lot more fuel.
The only real tips I can give on installation is that any three speed floor shifter from a van works great. Ford had a lot of them in the 70s. Make a bracket to attach to rear of main tranny in such a way that the shift rods run straight as possible. Any angle such as a drive line has will cause binding and excessive wear. Keep driveline between trannys as short as possible and perfectly in line. failure to do so will result in vibration and or excessive bearing and joint wear. The rear drive line may require the addition of CV joints due to increased angle. Best boxes to explore are the 5831 or 7031. A spicer 5831C will allow you to split gears both up and down. Any aux box with ratios that split more than .25 are not as useful. The shift patterns become difficult to remember.
A typical wide ratio 4 speed with a 3 speed Aux Box will drive like a nine speed. Plus you will have 3 seldom used low gears. with 5831 you can get 1.27 UD and .85OD. The 7031 can deliver much the same.
You have another 5 speed option if all you want is OD. Find a ford scattershield bellhousing and use an NV4500 from a chevy. This is much less work. You have to adapt the speedo output but overall it is much easier. Personally I favor the Aux Box because it will give you more towing ability at high altitude. Slow highway speeds are not all bad but 20 to 30 miles at 15 mph gets very irritating for you and the people behind you.
Just a little food for thought. I hope its somewhat useful.
George
Thanks again.
Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Both ends are 1.750 10 spline. The boxes usually come a front yoke and a rear flange. Most people who have these will also have available the ends cut off of a drive shaft . There are larger but most common is the 1410 yoke. Your drive shaft will have to be made. Most of your current yokes are probably 1310 ? Commonly a driveline shop will take a tube with 1350 yokes shorten it to the proper length and use a 1310 to 1350 joint and a 1350 to 1410 joint. Here I can take in a used driveline have it shortened and add joints for about $100 vs a new custom made driveline at about $350. Most common source of used with 1350 both ends is chevy pickup 73 to 87. A ujoint catalog will list ones with 1350 both ends. Always make use of joint catalog when searching for used drive lines. When you know what should be at both ends all that is left is can you get lucky and find the right length.
I don't know what you have but your e-brake should not need to be disturbed. Most of those trucks use a driveline flange that just bolts to the brake drum.
Take a more simplistic view of it. If your drive line has a center support bearing. The Aux Box is simply a center support bearing so big you need to shorten the front driveline.
George
I don't know what you have but your e-brake should not need to be disturbed. Most of those trucks use a driveline flange that just bolts to the brake drum.
Take a more simplistic view of it. If your drive line has a center support bearing. The Aux Box is simply a center support bearing so big you need to shorten the front driveline.
George
Cross-Country
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 52
Likes: 4
Both ends are 1.750 10 spline. The boxes usually come a front yoke and a rear flange. Most people who have these will also have available the ends cut off of a drive shaft . There are larger but most common is the 1410 yoke. Your drive shaft will have to be made. Most of your current yokes are probably 1310 ? Commonly a driveline shop will take a tube with 1350 yokes shorten it to the proper length and use a 1310 to 1350 joint and a 1350 to 1410 joint. Here I can take in a used driveline have it shortened and add joints for about $100 vs a new custom made driveline at about $350. Most common source of used with 1350 both ends is chevy pickup 73 to 87. A ujoint catalog will list ones with 1350 both ends. Always make use of joint catalog when searching for used drive lines. When you know what should be at both ends all that is left is can you get lucky and find the right length.
I don't know what you have but your e-brake should not need to be disturbed. Most of those trucks use a driveline flange that just bolts to the brake drum.
Take a more simplistic view of it. If your drive line has a center support bearing. The Aux Box is simply a center support bearing so big you need to shorten the front driveline.
George
I don't know what you have but your e-brake should not need to be disturbed. Most of those trucks use a driveline flange that just bolts to the brake drum.
Take a more simplistic view of it. If your drive line has a center support bearing. The Aux Box is simply a center support bearing so big you need to shorten the front driveline.
George
You are making my day here!! I am working on a deal on a 5831 C, and also have a member here with a 5831 B available so between the two I should be good to go. That is great info regarding the driveline,we have a few good local driveline shops so it should be a snap provided the box I buy has the ends( box side) to work with. Regarding the E brake, my understanding was it needed to be mounted on the last trans in the driveline....are you saying I can just leave it on my existing trans and call it a day? that would sure make things easy. I thought that because the A box has a neutral it would need to be behind that.
Does it need to be rubber mounted like the Trans?
Cheers!
Brian
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
George,
You are making my day here!! I am working on a deal on a 5831 C, and also have a member here with a 5831 B available so between the two I should be good to go. That is great info regarding the driveline,we have a few good local driveline shops so it should be a snap provided the box I buy has the ends( box side) to work with. Regarding the E brake, my understanding was it needed to be mounted on the last trans in the driveline....are you saying I can just leave it on my existing trans and call it a day? that would sure make things easy. I thought that because the A box has a neutral it would need to be behind that.
Does it need to be rubber mounted like the Trans?
Cheers!
Brian
You are making my day here!! I am working on a deal on a 5831 C, and also have a member here with a 5831 B available so between the two I should be good to go. That is great info regarding the driveline,we have a few good local driveline shops so it should be a snap provided the box I buy has the ends( box side) to work with. Regarding the E brake, my understanding was it needed to be mounted on the last trans in the driveline....are you saying I can just leave it on my existing trans and call it a day? that would sure make things easy. I thought that because the A box has a neutral it would need to be behind that.
Does it need to be rubber mounted like the Trans?
Cheers!
Brian
George
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 429
Likes: 1
From: Paso Robles, CA
Ok, I just made it through all 14 pages... WOW! What a TON of info.
it has also made me realize that I am sitting on a goldmine of dirty Ford truck parts.
I have a Watson / Dana box, and the complete shifter/rod/assembly is all intact on the truck. My setup has the E-brake drum and all linkage mounted on the back of the aux trans, as it should. E-brake lever to drum; all of it included.
I haven't set aside the time to clean the truck up, or yank the parts. So at this point, I'd offer to either yank the unit now and post for sale, or leave it in the frame to see how it mounts and is organized. (or, we could discuss taking the whole frame/drivetrain/etc. I just want the sheetmetal.)
I'm thinking $2000 obo
PM me or email me at the link in my profile. (email's fastest for me)
it has also made me realize that I am sitting on a goldmine of dirty Ford truck parts.
I have a Watson / Dana box, and the complete shifter/rod/assembly is all intact on the truck. My setup has the E-brake drum and all linkage mounted on the back of the aux trans, as it should. E-brake lever to drum; all of it included.
I haven't set aside the time to clean the truck up, or yank the parts. So at this point, I'd offer to either yank the unit now and post for sale, or leave it in the frame to see how it mounts and is organized. (or, we could discuss taking the whole frame/drivetrain/etc. I just want the sheetmetal.)
I'm thinking $2000 obo
PM me or email me at the link in my profile. (email's fastest for me)
Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Ok, I just made it through all 14 pages... WOW! What a TON of info.
it has also made me realize that I am sitting on a goldmine of dirty Ford truck parts.
I have a Watson / Dana box, and the complete shifter/rod/assembly is all intact on the truck. My setup has the E-brake drum and all linkage mounted on the back of the aux trans, as it should. E-brake lever to drum; all of it included.
I haven't set aside the time to clean the truck up, or yank the parts. So at this point, I'd offer to either yank the unit now and post for sale, or leave it in the frame to see how it mounts and is organized. (or, we could discuss taking the whole frame/drivetrain/etc. I just want the sheetmetal.)
I'm thinking $2000 obo
PM me or email me at the link in my profile. (email's fastest for me)
it has also made me realize that I am sitting on a goldmine of dirty Ford truck parts.
I have a Watson / Dana box, and the complete shifter/rod/assembly is all intact on the truck. My setup has the E-brake drum and all linkage mounted on the back of the aux trans, as it should. E-brake lever to drum; all of it included.
I haven't set aside the time to clean the truck up, or yank the parts. So at this point, I'd offer to either yank the unit now and post for sale, or leave it in the frame to see how it mounts and is organized. (or, we could discuss taking the whole frame/drivetrain/etc. I just want the sheetmetal.)
I'm thinking $2000 obo
PM me or email me at the link in my profile. (email's fastest for me)
Your Goldmine may turn out to be more of a small nugget. I have bought many of these over the years and they are just not worth that much unless you find a first class idiot. If you do a web search you will find any number of them priced at $200 to $300 used, $800 to $1200 rebuilt. They are only worth a lot if you can sell them in parts. Each will yield about $2,000 in parts if it has the right gear ratios but that could be a 20 year project. Good Luck
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 429
Likes: 1
From: Paso Robles, CA
Do you mean 'in parts' as in selling off individual gears, internals, etc or parting the shifter from the box, and the e-brake seperate, etc?
I saw in here someone asking $1800 for the box so I figured for a couple hundred more you get the shifter and e-brake assemblies.. no dice?
Preferable sooner than later, I'll have the frame gone, but I planned to yank the box and assembly...scrap the rest.
I need room, and I need money.
P.S., if you have time, I could use that too.
I saw in here someone asking $1800 for the box so I figured for a couple hundred more you get the shifter and e-brake assemblies.. no dice?
Preferable sooner than later, I'll have the frame gone, but I planned to yank the box and assembly...scrap the rest.
I need room, and I need money.
P.S., if you have time, I could use that too.
Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Do you mean 'in parts' as in selling off individual gears, internals, etc or parting the shifter from the box, and the e-brake seperate, etc?
I saw in here someone asking $1800 for the box so I figured for a couple hundred more you get the shifter and e-brake assemblies.. no dice?
Preferable sooner than later, I'll have the frame gone, but I planned to yank the box and assembly...scrap the rest.
I need room, and I need money. P.S., if you have time, I could use that too.
I saw in here someone asking $1800 for the box so I figured for a couple hundred more you get the shifter and e-brake assemblies.. no dice?
Preferable sooner than later, I'll have the frame gone, but I planned to yank the box and assembly...scrap the rest.
I need room, and I need money.
P.S., if you have time, I could use that too.
fficeffice" /><o
></o>SPICER (brownee) auxillary gear box - $2200 <o
></o>I have a 5831 Spicer auxillary transmission completely reconditioned for sale with the installation kit for a ONE TON TRUCK. This is a 3 speed box with under, direct and overdrive. I removed this recently to sell my truck and wanted to sell this separate. It has the mounting to install in any truck with adjustments if needed. Included is the two drive shafts balanced and with the joints to install the trans. Included is the shifter unit that mounts beside the tail shaft of your transmission on the trans cross member. 281-689-xxxx:
<o
></o><o
></o>This is for someone with a lot of money who is lacking common sense and mechanical ability. Thats a current craigslist ad from Houston. It has pictures. The shift rods are at least 5 feet long. How long is your truck? The mounting defies description. Are your frame rails the same width? Is your wheel base the same as his? Is your engine the same as his? Is your main tranny the same as his? Unless every detail of your truck is exactly the same as his the parts are just scrap iron that you can possibly make parts out of. There are a lot of ads out there like this. They all have the same common goal. To pray upon someone's ignorance.<o
></o><o
></o>Craigslist and Ebay are educating the crooks. Teaching then how to market useless junk at outrageous prices to the ignorant public.
Ebay has what they call buyer protection but whats for sale is the gear box all the attractive additional parts will not be covered.
If you think $2,000 is a good deal, I have one I would gladly sell for a mere $800!
Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Watson 41M1...31M1...
So.....what makes my 41M1 different from the 31M1 or other watson auxiliary trannys? Anyone have a comparison list they could post? Seems to be a 3-speed under-direct-over drive and I plan to slip it into my bread van soon. My tiny diesel really needs more gears and I am pumped to get both a lower low (my T-19 has no "granny gear) and one more cruising gear cause the max speed is 59 due to the power band drops off at that exact speed.
Thanks guys....
Thanks guys....
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 677
Likes: 2
From: High Point NC
hey guys i bought today what i beleive is the exact small wastson some of yall have described the whole unit yoke to yoke is around 18 inches its about 9-10 inches wide and about 12inches tall
this is what the spec plate says as it says it
Watson transmission
made by
brown-lipe gear
spicer manf. corp. toledo ohio
model 39 m1
serial # w22 0 60
if anyone can tell me ANYTHING about what i have it would be much appreciated becouse i knw verry little about it ......
this is what the spec plate says as it says it
Watson transmission
made by
brown-lipe gear
spicer manf. corp. toledo ohio
model 39 m1
serial # w22 0 60
if anyone can tell me ANYTHING about what i have it would be much appreciated becouse i knw verry little about it ......