Message was a little short, I was getting cut off and message attempts were disappearing. We live in an age where there are few full service machine shops. Far too many lack the necessary machines and skills to do gear work. You really need to find a gear and pattern shop with capability to make a new gear. They are the people who will know if a gear is worth repairing. While hardened gears are difficult and expensive to machine yours should not be that bad for 2 reasons. If it is that far out of balance a skilled gear man can see the problem before measuring. Second that gear was produced at a time when gears were very soft by todays standards. They were engineered to be used in slow moving low horse powered equipment that did not need much hardening. There is no way of knowing how hard a gear is before attempting machine work. Far too many people look at a gear or shaft and say it is hardened and cannot or will do anything with it.

 

Hi Guys,

Been reading with some interest about you blokes tinkering around with Spicer 5531 and 5831 auxillary boxes.

Have seen many variations in both input/output yokes and flanges. Seen a photo of one that COULD have been a Spicer 1310 OR 1350 on the input side, yet looked like a 1410 series on the output, Also seen small and large diameter flanges on output sides.

Makes me wonder if there was such a thing as an industry standard when these things were released, or maybe it was up to the customer to specify or simply take what was offered?

I have seen cases of where blokes couldn't get the right yoke (or flange) because they were possibly obsolete, got out of it by ordering a special universal that had two opposing sides at one size, the opposite sides at a different size again.

I came across this myself many, many years ago putting a Toyota Dyna 2 tonne box (with E brake drum removed and married to a Dana 20) behind a Rambler 343 into a CJ6 Jeep. Think the reason I did it was that the two tailshafts worked out to be within a half inch difference in length and I wanted interchangeability if ever I dropped a rear tailshaft.

But, I digress! Any chance anyone can remember just what size/type of yokes/flanges they used? Trying to lay my hands on a 5531, but very rare over here, 5831's are about, if you can get anyone to part with them.

Cheers, Dave 64

 

Hello all,I should be getting my 6041 Friday or Monday.It is going in a 79 f350 Crewcab behind a T18.Anybody have any tips,tricks,install ideas.I will be mounting as close to the T18 as possible,moving the midship tank back about 3ft,and possibly cutting a hole in the rear floor and installing a 2nd trans hump to gain more height.I will also be using a vintage 3spd Hurst mastershift shifter. How am I doing?
Chris

 

Sounds good. You may or may not need additional height. Only tip I have to offer is keep the driveline and 6041 as close to inline with the T-18 as possible. Input tip of t-18 needs dead straight line to output yoke of 6041. If you get some angles going it can set up strange harmonic vibrations and abnormal, premature wear on shaft bearings. Using shims with mounts is more of a critical need than people think until they have to replace those big expensive bearings after only a couple thousand miles.


Have fun!

 

I recommend reading through Spicer's instructions for driveshafts before you finalize your installation plan. Available here as a pdf: http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-DSSP.pdf

I think you should put some rubber cushion in the mouting system to reduce noise transmitted to the frame. One recommendation I have heard is to use boat roller rubber that you cut to the length you need. I plan on using flathead Ford motor mount kits since they also come with the bolt and nut.

Also, can you post pictures of your shifter fabrication, aux box mount fabrication, and installation? I do like pictures.

 

Good afternoon,yes I will post pics of install.I was intending to use rubber mounts under the ends of the crossmembers at the frame and ridged mount the box to the crossmembers,or would it work the other way around with rubber between the box and the crossmembers and then mount the crossmembers solid?
Chris

 

Excellent information never saw this before. The diagrams and information explain it a lot better than I ever could.

 

Most factory Spicer box installs I have seen are consistent in their rubber placement. They have rubber between the big slip collar and the front cross member. And they have rubber between the outside of the rear cross member and the frame. Two good pictures of a factory 6041 installation are here and here. The album I found these pictures in is here.

 

I have been interested in smaller auxiliary transmissions for a while. When I got interested I hoped to find a nice web page or forum thread that gave a lot of information on the smaller auxiliary transmissions. This thread has been very helpful with gathering information, but the information is still scattered. This post is my attempt to put together the most useful information I have in a consolidated format. If anyone notices a mistake or omission please contact me so I can correct it.




The history of smaller auxiliary transmissions is a bit confusing. Once you are dealing with trucks newer than the Model T era, three names are prominent: Brown-Lipe, Spicer, and Watson. The cause of the confusion is that at some point all three companies were combined. I have a 5831 and the data tag has all three company names on it. As near as I can figure out most of the Watson transmissions were designed for 1½ ton through 2 ton trucks and most of the Spicer transmissions were designed for 2½ ton trucks and larger. The exceptions are the Watson 2021 and the Spicer 4800, both which were designed for ½ ton pickup trucks. Also designed for ½ ton pickup trucks was the Warn Auxiliary. If you are planning on installing an auxiliary transmission in your truck you should do some careful measuring to make sure you can make everything fit. I also need to make a huge disclaimer at this point; I have not installed one of these yet. My current plans are to put a Spicer 5831 into a ¾ ton pickup. I am still in the planning stages.




I'll start with a table of gear ratios. I included the transmissions in this list for two reasons: first these are small enough to use in a 1 ton or smaller truck, and second I could find some information on them.




The Watson transmissions most frequently mentioned in online discussions are models: 31M, 39M, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, and 48. I have seen pictures of these Watson transmissions used in ¾ and 1 ton trucks. Watson used a basic design and changed the model number to designate different gear ratios. The 31M and 39M were side loaded transmissions and did not have cast in mounting locations. The 41 through 48 transmissions are top loaded with four cast in mounting holes.
The 31M and 39M transmissions look like this


The Watson 41 through 48 transmissions look like this




The Spicer transmissions most mentioned are the 5531 and 5831 models. The 5831 series transmissions were the updated replacement to the 5531 series. Both series were available in several ratios. These are top loaded transmissions with the shifter rods and forks carried in the top cover. The 5531 has cast in mounting holes at the rear of the transmission. The 5831 does not have cast in mounting holes. I have seen pictures of these Spicer transmissions used in ¾ and 1 ton trucks.
The Spicer 5531 transmissions look like this


Here is a Spicer 5531 parts manual






The Spicer 5831 transmissions look like this


Here is a Spicer 5831 parts manual












Here is an excerpt from a GMC shop manual that covers the Spicer 5831










Warn, the company of Jeep winch manufacturing fame, made an auxiliary transmission at some point in the 1960s. Unlike all the other transmissions I am writing about the Warn Auxiliary has a planetary gear set. I include it here mostly because I lucked into a NOS unit a while back. These were designed to fit between the main transmission and a married transfer case. I'm not sure how well one of these would hold up to 1 ton truck use. I think it looks like a great unit for a vintage ½ ton pickup with a stock gasoline engine.
Here is an add for the Warn Auxiliary


I also have scans of the owners manual / parts list / instruction guide






Here is a picture of a Warn installed between a main box and a transfer case




If you want to save copies of any of these pictures you can find them on photobucket in my Auxiliary Transmission folder: Auxiliary Transmissions by Fred_Mills | Photobucket


Respectfully,
Fred

 

Hello,Wednesday my transmission was delivered.Clean,shifts smooth and has a rebuilt tag from 1996.Front yoke is a 1550 and rear yoke is a 1610 so a trip to the local junk yard will get me shaft ends.I am looking for opinions on the best way to get the speedometer to work correctly?I know longer cable with custom ends,speedo has plastic squeeze clip and spicer has a screw on end,but to get the ratios right,a sw reduction box?
Also what for oil, smells like gear oil but it is very light in weight and is clean.I have read somewhere these use engine oil 30W?And I plan to use a tranfer case bushing set from a mid 70s ford poly or rubber?
Chris

 

There are little gear boxes you can put in your speedometer cable to correct the ratio. Probably you can use the ratio correction box to also adapt to the different cable ends you need. You end up using two speedometer cables, one before the ratio correction box and one after. Do an internet search for "speedometer gear ratio adapter".

I don't have any factory literature on your gear oil. The 5831 literature I've seen specifies 50W motor oil. I'd use 80-90 gear oil.

I'd use the poly bushings if they are not unreasonably expensive. I don't like to crawl under a vehicle and replace bushings and the poly will last longer.

 

Hello,So here are a few pics of the installed 6041 in my 1 ton crew.It is 14 1/4 inches from u-joint center to u-joint center,and the center shaft pictured is 13 to 16 inches working length 1330/1550 solid non greaseable spicer joints.Action Machine is also as I write this building my rear drive shaft,should be here by the end of this week.Speedo cable is on its way from Texas Industrial Electric.
Next will be building the shifter mount off of the front trans,and some how redesign the emergency brake system.Any ideas are welcome,I do not have a park brake on the rear of the 6041 and would still rather use the park brakes at the wheels anyway.
Chris

 

Nice pictures of the installation so far. I like the front support.

Can you fabricate a bracket that bolts to the top rear of the 6041 with a long swing arm to look up your parking brakes? I'd prefer to maintain the brakes at the rear wheels too.

 

Hi again,I would go up and over the spicer if there was room.I had to cut a hole in the floor just in front of the rear seat to get the aux. high enough and for correct shaft angles( I will cover with a modified factory trans hump),which is also the reason for the fancy front crossmember.Front and rear are 3/8th channel,the rear member is straight.
I had to remove the factory crossmember that held the e brake cable for the trans install.Since I posted the pictures I have done some homework and decided to install a full set of cables that go down the outside of the drivers side frame rail from 80s F350.
Chris

 

Been lurking in this thread forever, thought I'd chip in briefly on a couple of the more recent (last year?) bits. As an aside, 38 coupe, killer resource in that collected information post!

Actually, you can. I've had to find out the hard way, too. I maintain three moving bridges, and the newest one uses 91:1 reduction transmissions that were new in the 50's and haven't been made since maybe the 70's. You end up having to learn a lot about custom machining transmission parts.

All the machine shop needs to do is a hardness test. Rockwell or Brinnell are the two main methods. There are tables to translate between one and the other, so it doesn't matter which the shop has the equipment for. The test results both directly give you a hardness (which tells you most of what you need to know about machineability), and give you the yield strength of the material, which lets you pick a modern material to give you a part that's the same strength of stronger. They're both non-destructive tests as long as you're not doing them right on a bearing or gear tooth surface, they leave a tiny dimple in the steel.

Not difficult, but it's like you said, you have to have a shop that knows what they're doing.

You probably already know this, but dead straight is less important than parallel. Spicer actually recommends you have at least 1* of angle at each joint, just because if they're dead straight they won't move enough to distribute lubrication, and you can get problems with them seizing. If you keep the joint angle between 1-3*, but the two transmissions are within 1/2 degree of parallel, you won't get any vibration or bearing issues.

That Dana Spicer manual is a killer compilation of driveshaft expertise. It explains the angle and vibration issue perfectly. Good find.

Good looking install all around so far. The 80's/90's style parking brake cables do work pretty decently, that's probably a pretty good pick for getting your cable clearance on the inside!