So I haven't been around in awhile but I am getting ready to take the plunge and buy a brownie. A local wrecking yard has a Spicer 7231D, a spicer 5831D and a Watson M48 ser#023100. I think I'm going to buy the 5831D but was curious if anyone knows anything about the Watson unit and if parts can still be ha for the Watson. I'm told the spicers are no problem to source anything other than gaskets and an actual case.

 

give it a little while. the guys who really know their stuff should be one here within the week.

 

Spicer List of ratios from the spicer catalog.

No Code=2.00, 1.00, .73
A=1.54, 1.00, .73
B=2.35, 1.00, .85
C=1.27, 1.00, .85 (Most expensive and desirable splits sm465 or 420 gears up and down)
D=2.00,1.00,.85
E=1.27,1.00, .73
F=2.00,1.27,1.00 (NO OD)

 

I FINALLY found a Motors Manual at Hot August Nights that has SOME info, not a lot, on the 5831 - but it is better than nothing.

 

May be able to help some. What information are you looking for?

 

I installed a 7231B into an 86 F250 6.9 a couple of years ago.
Check out my photo albums. Bought mine from Acme in Stockton, CA.
They are the largest big truck salvage and rebuilders in Central CA.
The transmission shop has close to 400 units inside and as many outside.
Paid $850 for mine and it had been inspected and pronounced serviceable.
John, the transmission shop manager knew what I wanted to do and he steered me away from the 5831 as too hard to find parts for if anything ever went wrong and also the 6241 as too noisy. My 7231B is very quiet under load. It sings a bit running light at 70. The 7231 is about 100 pounds heavier and a good 4-inches taller than the 5831. Quite frankly 100 pounds isn't much when your talking reliability towing the Sierra at just under 12000 pounds gross. Mine is mounted mid-ship behind the transfer case. It would not have been possible with a standard cab and 4x4 as I had to come up through the floor about 2 inches to get the proper drive line alignment. I mentioned that Acme had close to 800 trnasmissions, they only had 1 shifter. Don't know where the old auxiliary transmission shifter grave yard is but it must be full. Mine wasn't in too bad a condition. The end plates were worn about 10 mils allowing the rods vertical travel. Had trouble with the direct/over rod slop until I made a guide for it to travel through. Went South down I-5 in July to San Simeon, saw Hearst Castle, incredible engineering feat. Came back up Hwy 1 along the coast. 8-10 % grades and switch backs. The 7231 paid for itself on that trip. I'll be glad to answer any questions.

 

Help!!

I am thinking of abandoning my idea of running a brownie in my drivetrain, in favor of changing my gear ratios to 3.55's.

I just aquired a '00 24v w/ a fresh NV5600 & NP241DHD and am thinking of using the drivetrain as is. My original plan was get a 2wd ZF5 or ZF6 and run the 5831B and divorced NP205 behind that.

What do you all think?

 

You have to ask yourself what the brownie was for and why do I no longer want it. Unless you need to split gears a brownie serves no real function.
What kind of pulling power are you going to end up with if you install 3.55s? That are a lot of factors to consider like can the engine handle 3.55s in OD without lugging and destroying MPG??? Where you are driving is just as important a factor as what drive train you use. If you pull a load up a mountain will you be unable run more than 20MPH? No! I do not have the answers. Brownie W/ZF??? Double overdrive serves no useful purpose Unless you have big blower mounted on a caterpillar engine. 2.35 under may be good for a rock crawler. With todays engines 2.35 under serves no useful purpose it was made for wide ratio transmissions in trucks that had less horse power than a 4cyl Kia.
It's all just food for thought!!!

 

I am just about done rebuilding my 5831. I am struggling to get the detent bearing to stay in while I slide the shift rail in. Anyone have any tips, or just keep trying until I get it?

I decided that after I finish rebuilding it, I will be putting it up for sale. Hopefully I can get a decent price for it. Anyone know the best place to advertise it?

 

Well I finished rebuilding the 5831B. If anyone is interested in buying it, let me know. my phone number is: 36O-597-6803

 

Hi to allI put a 7041 behind a 5 0ver Getrag and 5.9 Cummins in a 56 Merc 500 coe a few years ago. Know the Getrag isn't a very good trans, but that,s what I had, hope to find something different later. Have only went around the block so far, shifted nice, no vibrations or strange noises, seemed ok. Drove a few trucks with 5 x 4's back in the 70's hauling gravel and logs and one 4x4 on the hwy.so two sticks don't bother me, a bit rusty though. Always found A-boxes easy to shift because of the clse ratio's as long as the remotes were in good shape. If my math is right at 2,000 rpm in 5th and 4th output on a-box should be about 2,800 rpm giving around 60 mph which I think is about right for a 5.9. Any thoughts or criticism welcome .

 

I used a spicer box in the late 60s. 6041 and and wide ratio muncie. That gives you a constantly used close ratio 9 speed + 3 more on the bottom end that were never needed. Most people now days cannot drive one. They seem to think everything can be shifted like somekind of hotrod.
The 2800 is about right. I have crunched the same numbers many times. I have the same 5 speed with a 292 in a 1 ton. I have A-boxes but cannot functionally use one. If you get 60 mph at 2800 you have a deeper rear end than I do. With a 3.73 rear At 2300 in 5th over I'm pushing 70 mph. That makes the A-box unusable. If I catch even the slightest wind I can get better fuel mileage without OD. But the same problem is still there, not enough gears and the get rag's gears are not evenly split. Do not under estimate the get rag, especially the one with the big output shaft. I don't know about pulling a heavy load or the torque you have but I ran mine dry just west of denver. The floor board was smoking and it was making noises I've never heard before. Filled it with oil and It still works. I've put several thousand on it since and it still works. I guess what you really need to consider is does your engine have sufficient torque at 2000 rpm to run a double OD? If the engine tends to lug it puts a lot of stress on the main tranny input bearing.



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I only have 5:83 gears in the back on 8.25x20 rubber. I have a formula for figuring this out so if math is right which I think it is, I've used it many times over the years. Good thing with "A''-Boxes if pulling to hard in over it's only about 300 rpm between gears. The bad thing with a 7041 is the low 1st gear, totally useless for my use. I have heard 1st gear can be replaced with a closer ratio but finding parts may not be easy. Most "A"-Boxes I drove in bigger trucks were had this and were a lot nicer. I really wanted a lighter 3 spd but couldn't find one here. Was lucky to find two 4 spds the same. At one time it was said that it took about 10 percent more power to pull in over drive. Had a K.W. with 3:08's and 10 direct and a FL with 31's and 9 over (both single axles) with 3176 Cats, didn't notice much difference in fuel mileage so wonder about the 10 percent more power thing.Happy New Year to All

 

I had a guy from california try to explain it to me once. If you have it and know how to use it there is a formula for the power curve. That explains the energy expended vs energy generated. Its somewhat the same as determining a proper Turbo.
Someone out there may have figured out a way to regear a 7041 but it cannot be done with stock gears. 7041 has only one choice for ratios. 6041 gears and 8341 gears will not fit. The 8341 can be had with a 1.60 first but it is 4 inches longer and an extra 200 pounds.
I've talked with several people with small trucks who run mountains and they all have the same things in common. A 1 ton dually with a turbo charged diesel that makes good use of the 7041 & 7231 and crank out an average of 20 mpg.

 

Haa-It must have been the 8341's that were used by KW, Hayse ect. back in the day. The close 1st gear sometimes saved making a split when cresting a hill. Although if I remember right you couldn't use 1st or 2nd when in 5th in the main because of torque issues. I think the mains we used were Eaton/Fuller, 5th was against your leg and toward dash.
Don't know how that happy face got in my last post - should read 3.91's and 9 over. I imagine I'll have fun figuring the gaps in the Getrag, I guess time will tell. As for 1st in the 7041 I'll pretend it's a 3spd. I really wanted a 3spd because of room and weight but couldn't find one, but found two 7041s. $100.00 & $150.00 complete with remotes, shafts & mounts. Everything worked out ok. Will try to post some pics tomorrow - Time for bed.