OMFG !!! The work of many ''professionals'' never ceases to amaze me !!

Did the sloppy idiot at least manage to get the deck clearance to zero ?

Please post up the deck figure, combustion chamber cc's, cam part number, head gasket part number, the 'effective dish volume' of the pistons, and the new bore size (4.03?).

With an increase in static compression from 8 (?) to 10 (?), I think you'll need to change the spark plugs you use.

It'll be 1 hotter or 1 colder, to start, but I can't remember which !

You can also gap the plugs to 0.045'' - 0.050''.

The total ignition timing (ignoring vacuum advance) can probably be reduced by a few degrees. (You'll know how much when you're driving/testing.)

Well done for 'caving' with regard to the block coolant drain plugs, and many thanks for the pictures and specs.

Funnily enough I removed mine yesterday. They are 14mm-1.25 ! (Don't ask ! )

I chose EZ drain plugs instead of fumoto as I like the fact that the ends are interchangeable and removable (straight and L shaped).

Size Chart - EZ Oil Drain Valve | Oildrainvalve.net

Do yourself a huge favour and get a set.

One can get clip on locks for them or use cable ties to lock them.

Thanks for not banning me ! LOL

 

Thanks! The feeling is mutual. I'm happy I did what I did, and I can't wait to throw it in!!!

CAM: Xtreme Energy 256H - P/N: 32-241-4 http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=846&sb=2
Head Gasket: FelPro 8347 PT - 1 http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part...=Head%20Gasket
Combustion Chamber (originally 76 CC's milled down by 0.008) = 74.2 CC's by my calculations (rough estimate).
New Bore = 4.030
Dish Volume = 13.3 C (Tmeyer KB2347 pistons)

Deck is zeroed with the pistons. See pic. This is #1, TDC. Ignore the bit of fibers in the photo, those were cleaned up and surface was reoiled.



Felpro gasket thickness... They're thicker than I thought!!!

Manufactured thickness (from link below): .0468 - .0572

They generally quote having a "squish" of 0.006 - 0.008 when torqued down, so best case scenario I have a 0.0458 thick gasket. Worst case is 0.0566.

Federal-Mogul Motorparts


Here's what I originally posted on the last page. These numbers need to change because the gasket is WAYYYY thicker than I thought.

Plus, the ring around the cylinder bore inside the head gasket (see photos above) has a SUPER odd-ball shape to it. It's not tight around the cylinder... it's almost like a double-egg shape??? I thought that was very strange when I first saw it.

Ran my compression numbers using BubbaF250's calculator.

Here's what I came up with:

__________________inch______cc___________cid
Chamber Vol.............................74.2.............. ...4.527979496
Deck Height..............10.297
Compression Height...1.71 (zero deck height)
Rod Length...............6.58
Deck Clearance.........0.007........1.463179027.....0.0 89289011
Gasket Thickness......0.04..........8.361023011.....0.510 222921
Piston Relief.............................13.3........... .......0.811618966
Clearance Vol...........................97.32420204......5.9 39110395

Bore.......................4.03
Stroke....................4.00
Swept Vol................................836.1023011.... ..51.02229213

Static CR.................................9.590898087.... ..9.590898087

9.6:1 static compression ratio, 0 deck height, milled heads (0.008 = 74.2cc from 75.6cc), 4.030 bore, 4.0 stroke, 13.3 piston relief's (T-Meyer Keith Black hypereutectic pistons = KB2347)...


I actually wanted to ask about this on the forum. I wanna make sure I don't forget to gap the plugs correctly.

As of right now, they're USED stock plugs, but they ran for a total of around 3 hours on the old motor (before the refresh).

Is that a big deal? I'm leaning towards no... but they are stock, and I need to regap them.

[QUOTE=FMJ.;17813900]The total ignition timing (ignoring vacuum advance) can probably be reduced by a few degrees. (You'll know how much when you're driving/testing.)

I've got the motor set at 10 degrees BTDC for initial start-up and cam break-in. I'll be setting the advance as required once break-in is done, but I'll post up the numbers.


Lol no problem. Those stoopid square head plugs were a bugger to remove... I rounded them soooooo many times.

Paint held up well to the MAP torch which is good news

Thanks but I'm still going to pass on the drain plugs. WAYYY too paranoid about hipsters with nothing better to do. There's more of them than you think... and they come out at night...

Lol no worries.


I do sincerely appreciate everyone's input on my build. Keep the comments coming! It's a massive help whether you know it or not. And thanks for the compliments on my frustrating week of "going back over stuff"...

I just hope I caught everything...

More to come!

 

"I've got the motor set at 10 degrees BTDC for initial start-up and cam break-in."

My opinion on this: 10* BTDC is too far retarded for your cam and initial break-in. She'll run too hot retarded not to mention a bit hard to start.....then running at ~ 2K RPM variable might be asking for trouble...not too much trouble, but I would set your initial timing at 12*-14* BTDC.

Your engine would be happier with those settings, and they're not too far off when you get to fine tune her.

Just my opinion....but I've done this in past with great success. Of course, the cam dictates what initial timing the engine wants, anyway......

 

Interesting. I used 10 BTDC because that's the generic number everyone goes with on most motors.

I never really considered using anything else, but I'm all ears! Not like I can't rotate the motor a little more before everything goes together

"Somewhere between 10* - 12* BTDC" was what I kept reading on the interwebs. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, didn't seem to matter which manufacturer it was - initial break-in was roughly 10 BTDC just to start off.

Anywho, like I said - not committed to that number. Was just taking a guess and intended to reset / check everything before initial firing.

 

No problem.....but if she spits a little through the carb when trying to start, you're going to have to advance it a few degrees anyway.

A "bigger" cam likes more initial anyway so any modifications one does to the engine...(headers, carb, ignition, etc)....the "book specs" can be tossed out the window.

Can't wait to hear first fire, Aaron! Lookin' good so far!

 

Many thanks for posting up the numbers.

That cam was not a good choice.

I did say in post 44 to ascertain your SCR before choosing a cam, and that the cam will determine the DCR.

I couldn't find a post thereafter in which you said ''I'm looking at 'this' cam''.

The head gasket is more or less stock, so the squish will be normal at 0.041'' or 0.051'' with the zero deck.

I think it will be closer to 0.041''.

The IVC on that cam is 54 degrees. I'd have chosen 58 minimum.

Your cranking pressures will be nice 'n high compared to what you had initially.

BUT !!

At 0.041'' squish, your DCR will be +/-8.3, and with 0.051'' squish, the DCR will be +/-8.1.

BUT !!

You might get away with it given your elevation.

Use 87 octane initially.

If no detonation, try a higher octane.

Now that I think about it, one has to advance timing for altitude, so maybe your total timing won't need reducing after all.

With regards to idle timing, chances are the 10 degrees mentioned is at sea level.

Aim for 14 - 16 idle timing initially.
(A tad lower won't harm the engine.)

Once run in, your engine will tell you, in V8 talk, what it likes and doesn't like.

Did you get matching springs for that cam ?

Read the instructions as it might tell you to heat the springs and then let them cool down.

If it does, run your engine for 5 minutes only, following the cam break in instructions too, then let it cool for an hour.

''I just hope I caught everything...''

Let's hope the idiots didn't do lazy stupid things like place oil under the crank bearings, as an example.

Ok, by all means use your OE plugs initially, gapped at 0.045'', but after your first cruise, keep an eye on them.

Google how to read the plug heat.

If they are too hot, 1 size cooler would be in order.

Use a torque wrench on your next new plugs with the correct torque setting.
You'll be surprised how far they turn after 'finger tight'.

Don't forget to seal the drain plugs.

In 2 years from now, when you're draining the block, and after trying your best, you still get nasty sticky coolant everywhere, remember that I wouldn't shut up about EZ/Fumoto drain valves. LOL

Thank you for thanking us.

It's fun being part of your build.

 

Regina, Saskatchewan is 577m above sea level.
1893 feet for you guys who haven't switched to the metric system yet

I was planning on putting 91 octane (Shell V-Power 100% Gasoline) into the tank for first-startup.

Why would I run 87? Shouldn't I run a higher octane to prevent potential problems with detonation rather than having to drop the tank for initial start-up?

Dropping the fuel tank on these trucks SUCKS BIGTIME. I really don't like doing it. It's an afternoon of "fun..."

The entire top end is matched with Comp Cam parts. Springs, Cam, Lifters, etc.

I was planning on leaving the drain plugs dry in the block, but thread sealer does seem like a good idea.

Lol silly Fumoto valves. I'd rather make a mess like back in the ol days More fun that way.

Except when it comes to these gas tanks... I'd install a fumoto valve on my gas tank in a heart beat...

 

love the color scheme looks great.

any plans for dyno test?

 

Sorry, my wording about the octane was incomplete and misleading !

I had just reread your thread and noted somewhere you would prefer to use 87 in the future.

So I mentioned it but was thinking about normal running after the break in. (The cam was distracting me !)

91 octane for initial start up is perfect, especially as the higher octane assists to prevent detonation, as you stated.

No need to drop the tank !
(Yes, LOL, it's a horrible job when either full or empty)

Mind you, if the gas in the tank is older than 6 months, you might have to !

Just before your initial start up, with the engine installed, fill the floats with gas.
That will assist with a quicker start.

LMAO at the fumoto gas tank valve idea.

Will you be running manifold or ported vacuum advance ?

 

FMJ: re your post #141:

You were a little hard on the kid there, weren't you?
I see nothing wrong with his cam choice...stock lift is ~0.433"/0.438"......and he has retainers, springs, etc for that cam...... he won't be loosing any low end with that duration.....but, that 2" spacer will cut off some low end poop....but the top end will be a screamer.
The LSA and ICL will give him enough vacuum and fuel charge.....I think the compression ratio will be higher than what you posted. Remember, these are just numbers on paper, subject to change on both ends in real life.

87 octane is fine...by his numbers...real life will tell, but I don't see any problems at his elevation, or even higher.

Valve spring heat cycle is a good idea to break 'em in. I would say this though - after initial break in and cool down, light her up again to operating temperature, then shut down for a spell....say down to somewhere around 100*F oil temp. Then repeat a coupla times.

You also have to remember Aaron needs to seat the rings so valve spring static run/cool down should be kept to a minimum. The same results, even better, would be to run her like he stole her, to third gear, then let the engine's compression slow her down. Do it again a few times, then shut down (valve spring cooling period)....have a beverage and do it again, etc, etc.

I'm still shaking my head about your engine "builder's" sloppiness and incompetence....I'd be tempted to recheck the installed valve spring height for consistency and correct installed height.......

 

Hi there FB,

Nope ! LOL, he got off lightly, and that's only because he is one of a few people who put a lot of time and effort into their homework, and I respect that.

I'd be a lot less friendly to myself if I'd chosen that cam !

Speaking of which, the duration etc isn't bad, the lift could be more, but the IVC might be a major issue, or it might not !

It's specifically the IVC I referred to in post 141.

The 8 point numbers are DCR, not SCR !!

The SCR is +/-9.6 or +/-9.4.

The ''just numbers on paper'' are of paramount importance, and will be an exact replica, or very very close, to the actual engine.

An entire engine is made up of numbers, all inter linked, and without them, an efficient, reliable, and powerful (subject to specs) engine cannot be built.

In Aaron's case he ignored the cam IVC, which is what determines the DCR which is what determines attraction to detonation or not.

He might be able to use 87 octane and he might not (We'll know soon enough !)

$10 says he won't check the spring specs.

Laterz,

 

I forgot to say that yes, he can run 87 octane all day, and at any altitude !!

But as soon as you factor in ignition timing, the engine might be well short of full power.

Retarding timing gets rid of detonation, but adjusting timing for that reason means it is not being set at its most efficient level.

$50 says he won't check ring gaps and crank bearing etc clearances.

 

I would disagree with you on the "just numbers on paper" being of paramount importance, etc...Only because the symphony of a well built engine (agreed, yes, they're all inter-related) doesn't take into account the co-efficient of friction of moving parts, mechanical loss - ignition/cam timing events, heat, HP and Torque loss from angular momentum to linear motion, etc.
Lot's of small variables add up to some end result loss.

How many times have you determined (on paper) that one engine should put out X amount of torque/Hp at the wheels only to find it falls short on the dyno?

I'm not disagreeing with you that all the formulas/math/etc are a good starting point...or that they don't make the engine sing with perfect pitch....it's just in the real world it's not often the case. Without the math/formulas/theories, yes, we'd be just shooting in the dark. But - they're not a hard and fast rule of "what you see is what you get". If that was the case, the tax laws we have would be more friendly to us Joe Sixpack motorheads.....

People often times get caught up in the DCR/SCR numbers.....which can be an addiction making the pencil's eraser one's best friend.

50 bucks on the bet? I won't take that bet as he has the engine back together again, no? That's why I said something about valve spring installed height....Ten bucks? You're on!

 

Not that I was betting, but do you prefer e-transfer or cheque?

$60 coming your way lol.

Just threw the intake on last night - don't really want to go backwards at this point.. even though I do have the tools to check all those things.

Might seem silly to some, but I don't exactly have unlimited time on my hands cause it's not my garage I'm using.\

EDIT: I'm not a head/valve expert by any stretch (as if you couldn't tell already LOL).

What would installed valve height tell me? How would I adjust it if I needed to?

 

Yoh FB,

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ya cheap b$st$rd.

Mind you, that makes two of us !

It's hilarious that you and I are making bets, and Aaron gets nothing !!

SCR and DCR calcs are essential. Period.

But, if I were to estimate HP etc, it would be that, just an estimate, as I wouldn't know the effect of the other variables you mentioned.