Me too!

I just hope I can salvage the block + crank... I have no idea what kind of shape stuff is in, but I can tell you for sure that it's heading to a shop sometime very soon.

Gotta choose a shop to go with...

 

Updates.

I was lucky enough to get my dizzy out with a really big pipe wrench last night.

Took many spins to free the distributor, but it eventually broke free.

Updates from last night.

Finally it's out. Time to check the cam and the damage.



Tons of grit came out from the dizzy hole... no wonder why it wouldn't come up/out.



Soon as I took the thrust plate off there were pieces of bearing falling everywhere. Look closely at the bearing surface on cam bearing #1 - you can see shards of the outer edge have gone missing.



And when the cam is pulled, here's what's revealed (cam bearing #1).



Cam bearing #1 (other side of above photo).



Cam bearing #3 (dark photo but you can see a rather LARGE piece of bearing that broke free).



Cam bearing #5.



Check out the cam lobes. Some discolouration, some good wear marks, lots of pitting like what's above my fingertip.



Lots and lots of wear patterns/marks/discolouration.



Pulled rod bearing #3 because I was curious what the cam bearings did to everything else. Here's the result. Lots of scoring, ridges, etc.





Crank "feels" okay. Nothing caught my fingernail.



A little better/darker photo of what's under rod bearing #3. It looks worse than it feels.



What's behind door #8 (under rod bearing #8)?





And yet another really worn out bearing (rod #8 bearing).



Bottom of piston #3 has some scratching along its sides. Not sure how serious that is (opinions welcomed). Notice the shiny bits in the middle of the piston?

All of the pistons look like this BTW.



Put the caps back on, wrapped up the motor in plastic for now. Took the rest of the night off.

Opinions?

 

The cam bearings are the worst I've ever seen. It looks like the bearing material separated from the backing. I can only think of two things that might do that - bad bearings or overheating. Loss of oil should have put severe scoring on the bearings and/or the cam.

And the cam is toast. So, with the bearing debris throughout the engine the engine has to come apart and while it is apart I would have the bores checked, which surely aren't round. If so,a bore job must be done. And new bearings if the crank and rod check out.

 

I'm glad you were able to get the broken distributor out with the pipe wrench. I heard that trick from one of these guys on here. Sorry to hear about how torn up the rest of the motor is, though. It makes me wonder what I'll find if I ever pull my 400 out, because good running isn't necessarily an indicator that there's nothing wrong.

 

Update time!

Just dropped the motor off at a machine shop yesterday.

Since looking over the motor, I've decided to go with a FULL rebuild.

It'll cost me, but I'll have a decent Ford 400 motor when I'm done (assuming it passes the crack check - which it should because it's got a post-March 2, 1977 build date).

So here's what's being done:
1) Hot tank - block, heads, oil pan, valve covers, timing cover
2) Remove broken exhaust bolt from driver-side head
3) Crack check // Mag-flux
4) Align hone
5) Bore cylinders slightly over (not going for the full 0.04 unless I have to - we'll see what the results come up with tho)
6) Deck the block
7) Shave the heads to match the block
8) Grind the crank
9) New oil pump
10) New pistons
11) New Flat tappet cam
12) New Lifters
13) New springs
14) New push rods
15) New bearings all around
16) Use my Cloyes double roller timing chain
17) Use my Felpro gasket kit
18) Use my Melling Freeze plug kit with brass plugs, minus installing the two heater core ones
19) Forgot this one - three angle valve job

Possibly looking at:
1) Tim's bearings + oiling mod
2) Tim's hyper eutectic pistons over whatever anyone else is offering - EDIT: Damn!!! Tim's out of them as of 4/13/2017!! When will more be coming? http://www.tmeyerinc.com/SearchResul...?Search=KB2347

The the above two possibilities, I just have to convince the machine shop doing the work that it's worth it. He's a good guy, but he sounded resistant to doing these mods likely because of the way I've described them to him.

 

Looks like a good plan. But, with the cost and effort you'll have in it I'd strongly urge you to go with Tim's oiling system mod's as they are cheap.

And, I'd also suggest Tim's pistons as you can't get anything more than 8.0:1 with anyone else's pistons. But something like 9.5:1 will give you more power and economy for not that much more cost.

As for the cam, Tim knows these engines and can have a custom cam ground for you by Comp (or others?) specific for your needs. So, when you call him to talk about those options you mentioned on the thermostat thread ask him about cams. Tell him what you want the truck to do and he can sell you one that will meet your needs.

 

Gary, I agree with the first two for sure. The third one might be a bit of a stretch for the shop I've went with.

The guy at the shop likes to do things "his way", which I'm okay with because he's fairly receptive to suggestions, but still prefers his own methods of madness because he's been building engines for 20+ years. I understand your suggestions, and they are indeed great ones. I'm just expressing my concern that I might not be able to get the shop doing the work for me on board with what you've said.

- The oiling mod is a maybe - gotta go talk to the shop again today.
- The pistons will likely be a "hell yes" because we talked about hyper eutectic pistons from the start - Tim seems to be offering the only ones (bet he's out of stock!!!!).
- The third may be even further of a stretch, depending on what kind of cam's Tim can make. The shop owner loves his Comp cams (select-n-go kinda guy).

I'll see what I can do, but I do have a question regarding the oiling mod...

What kind of changes are required beyond the oiling mod? Do I need to use Tim's bearings ONLY? Or can I still get away with a brand-name OEM style bearing?

 

The oiling mod's are shown on my web site and depend on the cam bearings, so I would not alter part of the system and not the other. The other mod's redirect large quantities of oil, so doing that w/o the rest of the mod's seems like a bad idea. But, if you are going to talk to Tim you can ask him - although I'm pretty sure what he will say. Anyway, why take the chance at the minimal cost?

However, you will HAVE TO make sure your guy at the shop agrees with this approach. My machine shop refused to make the modifications themselves, so I did them before delivering the block to them. But they agreed to install the cam bearings, and I provided Tim's bearings and his directions. Unfortunately they ignored the directions and installed them incorrectly. Fortunately I send the whole thing to Tim and his guy, Cory, found that problem as well as a couple of others. I saw it idle at 20 psi after 5 pulls on the dyno, which themselves came after at least 15 minutes of running to get it up to temp.

So, you may have to have a serious discussion with your guy. If he cannot accept the advice of the world's foremost 335 Series guy then I'd get my stuff back and send it to Tim. Your guy cannot have built as many of these engines as Tim has. So why let him do things "his way"? You are the customer!

 

I agree with what you've said Gary. I found it interesting to chat with my machine shop guy and have him... not so much as demand it his way, but suggest that he's had others come to him in the past with "great ideas" which he himself was sketchy about - in the end it didn't turn out so well. That's not to say that these mods are sketchy - they appear legitimate to me. But it's easy to understand the point of view my machine-shop has as well when he's had other mod-heavy builds go very badly in the past. Sort of a "catch 22" situation.

So I understand my shop's point of view. And yet I also understand yours too. If I ask for steak I'm not expecting to have salmon returned to me.

Anywho, so you're suggesting that all 3 mods are done?

1) plug/drill + tap + pipe plug mod (Did you use any thread locker when installing the pipe plug?)
2) smooth out the oil passages from the filter/transition area
3) smooth out the transition on the oil filter adapter itself

And lastly of course would be to install the cam + main bearings correct... which is the part I'm fuzzy about the most. This isn't to knock you in any way, but I didn't really catch if different cam bearings AND main bearings were needed. Also, how are they to be installed? I'm probably missing something, but I didn't see how the OEM bearings get installed versus how the new bearings should be install - additionally, if it's JUST the cam bearings that require a different installation method, or both the cam and the main bearings...

On top of that, are special bearings for both the cam AND the main bearings required? Can you use brand-name OEM-Style replacements?

Excuse my large amount of questions, but I'm not making the connection between pre-mod state of the block and post-mod state of the block. What parts are required, etc.

 

The smoothing was my idea, not Tim's. I thought I explained that on my site, but will look to see when my internet comes back up.

It is the cam bearings that are different. I don't remember what the diff is nor how they are installed. But the main and rod bearings are stock bearings. Just the cam bearings are different.

And if your guy can't be trusted to do the mods and install the bearings correctly I'd walk away. Period. He would absolutely have to give me an iron-clad agreement or I'd be gone. And, is check the work when done and before payment - and tell him that.

And, I did use thread locker. Just blue, not red.

 

Okay, I think I understand now. I was operating under the assumption that you did the extra two mods based on Tim's suggestions/discussions, not just because you like to be extremely thorough.

So, tying this all together. Bear with me here lol.

(This should be listed as Required) 1) plug/drill + tap + pipe plug mod + blue thread locker + install Tim's custom cam bearings correctly
(Recommended) 2) smooth out the oil passages from the filter/transition area
(Recommended) 3) smooth out the transition on the oil filter adapter itself

First... is the above change to the text correct? It's JUST the cam bearings + oiling flow mod that's a basic necessity for these old motors?

Second.. whats the part number for Tim's "custom" cam bearings for the #1 mod (above)?
- I also see on your website that there's a set of "instructions" that come with the custom cam bearings. Something else I missed when reading - but a very nice touch by Tim for this mod to make sure it's done correctly.

 

Yes, I think you have it. But, I don't know the part number for the cam bearings. That's another thing to discuss with Tim.

 

Called Tim. Think I've got everything down now.

Cam bearings with the groove on the back (for the oiling system mod) is Part Number: F26G

According to Tim, this is a basic upgrade for ANY Cleveland motor. Stock to high performance, it should be done because it's effective and very cheap to do.

 

He's the man, so now you just have to make sure your machinist understands and agrees. If not, then move on until you find one that does. Your money does the talking.

 

Aaron, sounds like you've got a nice build going on there! Cam choice is critical, so put some thought into that. The oiling system mods are inexpensive and effective. No way would I ever run one of these engines without those modifications. A high volume oil pump is a poor "fix" for oiling issues in my opinion.