I wasn't aware of MSD's problems. That doesn't make me warm and fuzzy.

Not sure I understand the "Doesn't need to be too lean, but it does need to be good @WFO."

 

Crane was floundering a few years back...

I've never felt the need for anything "more", but you might at 10.5:1

 

lots of cam and low engine speeds can cause strange reversions and things.
Usually this results in a very rich mixture.
... until the throttle is opened wide and the engine clears its throat and starts to scream.

 

Ok, got it. Thanks.

Yes, 10.5 makes the ignition work harder. But, "back in the day" we ran that compression on lots of muscle cars with points-style ignitions, so hopefully the DS system can do that and then some.

 

My 2 cents.

-Multiple spark boxes are a solution to a problem that doesn't and shouldn't exist. They only belong on drag only cars that are very hard to get to idle well.

The DSII system is plenty but if you want more I'd consider only four mods in this order of priority.

-Low resistance plug wires, 50 ohms per foot vs 700 ohms per foot makes a big difference in both power to the plug and lifetime of the wire. I'm a HUGE fan of the Taylor Thundervolt 8.2 wires, I put them on everything and have yet to wear out a set. They are fantastic bang for the buck at about $70 a set.

-A high voltage coil(60K), preferably of the E-core design if you don't mind the look. I like the Pertronix ones.

-Change to a HEI 4 pin module, you can just put it inside a duraspark box if you want, many do. The HEI module has 2 benefits. First, they take full power, no resistance wire or ballast resister needed thus it provides for allowing full power to the coil at all times. Second the dwell varies with RPM, some will argue how well this really works but it's there.

-Consider some aftermarket distributors. Some aftermarket distributors combine all the best parts, the Ford DSII pickup, the big Ford DSII cap, with the GM timing controls and vacuum advance that are much more tunable and easier tuned.

 

My big objection to the HEI modules, but it may be GM's coil, they are a huge power consumer, GM uses a #12 wire to feed those HEI distributors.

Plug wires, I have had excellent results with the "magnetic suppression" type wires, the ones with a monel coil around usually a fiberglass core. I am not familiar with the Taylor Thunderbolt, but they may be that style. NAPA Belden wires were at one time.

On the coil, good point, possibly any of the later coils and just bypass the ballast resistor wire, when Ford went to the first EFI systems in 1985 they did that for the TFI system. One of those E-core coils might be a good solution.

Vacuum advance, a number of the aftermarket replacements are "universal" in as much as they provide an allen screw adjustment to control the vacuum advance amount. I remember having to pre-set a number of them over the years.

 

The factory ford distributor is a good piece but it is a bit lacking in ease of adjustability area. There are many different weights that can be bought, found(jy) or modified (ground to be lighter or welded on to be heavier) to adjust the rate of mechanical timing increase. It is a bit difficult to adjust the timing advance stop but that can be done too.

Here is a good write-up on how to adjust a duraspark distributor.

http://reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_index.h tml

An aftermarket distributor will not function any differently than the duraspark one except for it may have easier/better timing advance adjustability.

The use of the vacuum advance is up to you but I would suggest using one anddialing it in to your specific situation. Set up correctly it will help in low load cruise situations and will goaway as engine load increases.

The MSD box isn't much different than the factory duraspark controlling box for the basic function of turning a magnetic impulse from the distributor into a spark signal for the coil). Now, after that the MSD box gets a bit more advanced with its spark pattern and that it also allows the addition of ignition add-ons. If you choose to go with the MSD box you might want to look into an adjustable timing controller (**** in the cab that allows manual timing adjustment on the fly). With relatively high compression it may be useful to be able to dial back the timing when towing, going uphill, high altitude or if for some reason you get a tank of low octane or questionable gas.

One suggestion I might make is that if you currently have a working duraspark controller you may want to leave that under the hood, it doesn’t take up much space and if for some reason your MSD box dies it could be a few wires away from working again (just some ignition back up insurance).

For my personal ignition I will be running (parts not installed yet cause the truck is still being put back together after paint) an MSD 6A with aduraspark distributor and a MSD 8981 timing computer. The distributor will have its mechanical advanced locked out but will have a functioning vacuum advance. The mechanical timing advance curve will be handled by the timing computer and will allow me to also have an adjustable in cab timing too.

Hope this helps in your decision, good luck!

 

Well in a way that's kinda my point, they put much more power to the coil.

Did you ever ohm test those NAPA wires? I bet they were pretty up there, shoot for comparison sake Accel, a company I hate BTW all there products are junk, advertise their wires at "3,000 to 7,000 ohms per foot of resistance", what junk.

Almost all plug wires these days are magnetic suppression I haven't even seen any for sale let alone on a vehicle that weren't in a long time. I think the Taylors are a copper wire coated in graphite wrapped around a fiberglass like core that I actually think is carbon fiber.

Here's what their site says
40 Ohm/ft. Ferrite Spiral-Wound coated core blend of exclusive copper/nickel alloy bonded by a conductive acrylic cover.
Taylor's Ferrite Sprial-Wound core provides low resistance for optimum RFI and EMI suppression and is compatible with most Ignition Systems and electronic components.
100% Zimplex Silicone 2-layer Outer Jacket for added Heat Protection up to 600º F, extending wire life and performance.

ThunderVolt 8.2mm UNIVERSAL/Race Wire Sets - Taylor Cable Products

I've owned dozens, installed hundreds, and sold thousands of these wires and have yet to have a complaint.

Yeah IDK what those coils are rated at, for me it's all about voltage potential so I can open the gap. The Pertronix flame thrower HV is the best bang for the buck I've come across at 60K Volts for about $75 now, I've owned 3 so far. I did manage to kill one .45 ohm one on an other then the wires above stock DSII ignition, it lasted about 4 years. So not too impressed with that, but I wasn't nice to it either.

60,000 Volt Canister Coils

Yeah many are adjustable for what vacuum level they activate at but the ford version isn't limitable as to the total amount of advance where the GM version is with a simple cam addition. That and the RPM advance being right at the top is pretty darn handy. I'll say though that the Ford RPM advance is more stable once adjusted.

With the GM ones you just have to add one of these


I forgot something on my list, I would never voluntarily run anything but the MSD retention distributor cap. On top of being a top notch unit they make life SOOOO much easier with all the wires coming off in a chunk, the coil having it's own retention, and them never sliding off on their own. And not too pricey to boot, well before IDK about now.

 

I did ohm test the NAPA wires and they were around 40 Ohm/Ft. as were the old MSW (Magnetic Suppression Wires) that I used to use back when wires were 7mm.

You want to see some unbelievable plug wire resistance, check #7 on most big block Mopar engines, the damn thing is 7 feet long!

Of course, for my setup all this discussion is academic, I change my advance curve with my laptop and I don't think an HEI type distributor would clear my intake system (I have to remove it to get the distributor out).

I am pretty sure the TFI is up in the 60,000 volt range, stock gap on most of those systems is around .054 up from the .042 range of the DS-II.

 

Thanks, guys. I'm traveling today but will review and ask questions tonight. I already see some forming.

 

Ok, there's a lot of info in those posts. Thanks!

On the wires, I'll need new ones so will check out the Taylors.

And, I understand the point on the e-coil and like Pertronix so will check theirs out. But, what's wrong with this one? Further, wouldn't taking the ballast resistor out overheat the module?

 

My dad had put Taylor wires on the van in the late 80's. They only lasted 40,000 miles before they were rotten and missing badly. Just my input in that.

 

Nothing, but the voltage is lower.

I agree the older taylors weren't very good, the wire aspect didn't last long and the silicone cover broke down. The "spiro pro" ones they have to this day with the funky looking boot aren't as bad as they were back then but certainly not good. They're really only for show cause they come in so many colors.

These;

 

Yeah, those are the ones. Over priced crap IMO. It's had Accel 8.8 spiral core's on it since 1999, only because it needed wires badly before a trip and that's all he could get. A pain to deal with on a small block mopar, but they work well and have held up well. I have MSD street fire's on my truck, the quality of those seems very good for the price.

 

Gary, I have one of these Street Fire CD Ignition by MSD Ignitionlaying around that came off of the Bronco. You are welcome to try it out.

Before we started discussing this I wasnt aware of what the DSII system actually put out as far as voltage. I remember Jim saying that it was adequate for a lot of performance applications . DSII puts out 60,000 volts. That MSD Streetfire unit only delivers 45,000 volts. However, it does deliver the multiple sparks as well as having a rev limiter.