Dad's Engine
#692
#698
Gary, I have just been reading a mag on the restoration of Australia's rarest muscle car, a one- off version that was produced right as our govt knee- jerked against "killer supercars". The 1972 Ford Falcon XA GT-HO phase4, powered by a 351 Cleveland.
I noticed a couple of things that might interest you, the first was that this vehicle has been worked on by Ford gurus and it has had meticulous attention to original spec parts being used, yet in the photos of the engine pull down I notice it only has a standard thermostat not the special bypass blocking unit. This was an engine designed to race in the touring car series including the Bathurst 1000 endurance race, so they must not have had too much issue cooling it with a standard design thermostat.
The second thing was a write up on the run-in and dyno of the rebuilt engine by an expert shop using a Superpro engine dyno, and they did a comparison run of its predecessor a phase 3 351 Cleveland.
I will direct quote - " The oil pumps were primed; exhaust system fitted, water connected and the engines were checked for any leaks. They were then fired up, warmed up and the piston rings, bearings and solid cam shafts were run in by holding the rpm at 3000rpm for 20min.
Then a varying load from 2000-4000rpm was applied for 5 minutes to fully bed in the rings. After that we were straight into it taking the 351s to 6100rpm! "
They also talk of the engines being good for an easy 7000rpm but the factory Bosch twin point dizzys had a really cool feature - a rev limiting rotor button which kills the fun at 6200rpm !
The carb is listed as a "Ford Holley 780cfm". But there is no mention of the oil system or bearings so I can't help there
Cheers mate
I noticed a couple of things that might interest you, the first was that this vehicle has been worked on by Ford gurus and it has had meticulous attention to original spec parts being used, yet in the photos of the engine pull down I notice it only has a standard thermostat not the special bypass blocking unit. This was an engine designed to race in the touring car series including the Bathurst 1000 endurance race, so they must not have had too much issue cooling it with a standard design thermostat.
The second thing was a write up on the run-in and dyno of the rebuilt engine by an expert shop using a Superpro engine dyno, and they did a comparison run of its predecessor a phase 3 351 Cleveland.
I will direct quote - " The oil pumps were primed; exhaust system fitted, water connected and the engines were checked for any leaks. They were then fired up, warmed up and the piston rings, bearings and solid cam shafts were run in by holding the rpm at 3000rpm for 20min.
Then a varying load from 2000-4000rpm was applied for 5 minutes to fully bed in the rings. After that we were straight into it taking the 351s to 6100rpm! "
They also talk of the engines being good for an easy 7000rpm but the factory Bosch twin point dizzys had a really cool feature - a rev limiting rotor button which kills the fun at 6200rpm !
The carb is listed as a "Ford Holley 780cfm". But there is no mention of the oil system or bearings so I can't help there
Cheers mate
#699
Brad - That is interesting, and puzzling. I'm guessing they found that there isn't enough flow going through the bypass to cause a problem. But if the other 'stat was readily available so why not go with it? Anyway, that sorta fits with what Tim said, that he doesn't use the 335 Series-specific unit and has had no problems. But he runs them on a dyno that may have a HUGE cooling system, so might not see a problem that could occur in real life. (And, he also said it was only the C's that needed the special 'stat, which I don't agree with.) The plot thickens.
As for the break-in, I like that process. I'll check to see if we can do that on the dyno. But, since mine is a roller cam I don't know if the steady 3000 for 20 minutes is needed as that is usually what's done for a flat-tappet cam. However, some easy running would be good, followed by the varying load bit for a while.
Thanks!
As for the break-in, I like that process. I'll check to see if we can do that on the dyno. But, since mine is a roller cam I don't know if the steady 3000 for 20 minutes is needed as that is usually what's done for a flat-tappet cam. However, some easy running would be good, followed by the varying load bit for a while.
Thanks!
#701
Talked to Tim for 45 minutes today - and we would have talked on had the connectivity not gotten bad while I was driving. Boy, he's fun to talk to!
But, there was some good and some less-than-good news. He ordered 20 sets of pistons from Keith Black but only got 10 sets - and had sold 15. One of us was #10 and I was #11. So, good news for some. But KB is going to do a hurry-up order for another 10 and I should have my CARE package in about 6 weeks. And that'll work.
Another thing we talked about was carburetion. Tim expects to take delivery of the 750 CFM Street Demon tomorrow and plans to use it on a 400 he's going to dyno next week. In a addition, he will try a 750 Holley and a 650 Edelbrock on the engine. That conversation then turned to what carb I need for my engine, and I told him that the guy from Demon recommended the 625 Street Demon for my engine given the desire for economy and low-end torque vs horsepower. Tim was very adamant that a 625 would be too small for my engine. Yes, he frequently uses an Edelbrock 1806 Thunder (AVS) 650 CFM carb on 400's, but the 625 Street Demon would be too small - especially given its very small primaries.
Also, he's talking to George Reid, the guy that has written several books, about doing an EFI shootout and using a 400 as the test mule. His thinking is that they will use Cleveland intakes and the adapters to make them fit a 400 and do several carb tests. And then go to throttle-body EFI testing. And then to SEFI using injectors fitted into the adapters. The results might be a magazine article or maybe even a series on HP TV.
But, there was some good and some less-than-good news. He ordered 20 sets of pistons from Keith Black but only got 10 sets - and had sold 15. One of us was #10 and I was #11. So, good news for some. But KB is going to do a hurry-up order for another 10 and I should have my CARE package in about 6 weeks. And that'll work.
Another thing we talked about was carburetion. Tim expects to take delivery of the 750 CFM Street Demon tomorrow and plans to use it on a 400 he's going to dyno next week. In a addition, he will try a 750 Holley and a 650 Edelbrock on the engine. That conversation then turned to what carb I need for my engine, and I told him that the guy from Demon recommended the 625 Street Demon for my engine given the desire for economy and low-end torque vs horsepower. Tim was very adamant that a 625 would be too small for my engine. Yes, he frequently uses an Edelbrock 1806 Thunder (AVS) 650 CFM carb on 400's, but the 625 Street Demon would be too small - especially given its very small primaries.
Also, he's talking to George Reid, the guy that has written several books, about doing an EFI shootout and using a 400 as the test mule. His thinking is that they will use Cleveland intakes and the adapters to make them fit a 400 and do several carb tests. And then go to throttle-body EFI testing. And then to SEFI using injectors fitted into the adapters. The results might be a magazine article or maybe even a series on HP TV.
#702
Gary, would he be interested in a 460 TB for his SEFI tests? I have at least one extra laying around and it is bigger that the small block ones. I also have a couple of spare 460 EFI distributors (incorporate both the crank and cam sensor functions). If he will return it afterwards I have an extra EEC-V box also.
#703
Bill - I will ask him. You know, I've been thinking about asking if I could come just to watch.
I forgot to say that one of his reasons for not liking very small carbs on big engines is that he ran into a problem once where the vacuum at WOT came back up enough to bring the advance back in. Detonation city!
I forgot to say that one of his reasons for not liking very small carbs on big engines is that he ran into a problem once where the vacuum at WOT came back up enough to bring the advance back in. Detonation city!
#704
Carb
Well, despite what Tim suggested, I am going to try the 625 Demon. Mainly because it arrived yesterday. I looked at it briefly, and it should work for my purposes well. Only one way to find out. Not looking forward to having to drop more cash for a different carb. As I think I might be one of the lucky ones, I'll give you a street review once the truck is running.