Dad's Engine
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
WOW great work Gary, digging the diagrams. Also looks like this is all getting sorted, I'm glad we are in agreement with Tim's mod being a basically sound idea. I do however have three things here to add/continue.
1. I do still think that the function of Tim's mod can be best done with the bearing instead of with a plug. Basically using the bearing to plug the whole.
2. I think the same thing should be considered for the passage from the #5 main to the drivers side lifters. I think if no additional flow is going to be routed back there then that passage needs to be restricted to prevent too much oil from leaving the #5 main. The lifter galley doesn't need a huge amount of oil.
3. I remembered a trick one of the old machinists I worked for does. He drills a small hole in the pipe plug that goes into the front of the passenger side lifter galley. This does two things, it provides a squirter that oils the timing chain. And as that passage dead heads it provides a relief to drain oil sludge, air pockets, etc. that would otherwise have no place to go.
1. I do still think that the function of Tim's mod can be best done with the bearing instead of with a plug. Basically using the bearing to plug the whole.
2. I think the same thing should be considered for the passage from the #5 main to the drivers side lifters. I think if no additional flow is going to be routed back there then that passage needs to be restricted to prevent too much oil from leaving the #5 main. The lifter galley doesn't need a huge amount of oil.
3. I remembered a trick one of the old machinists I worked for does. He drills a small hole in the pipe plug that goes into the front of the passenger side lifter galley. This does two things, it provides a squirter that oils the timing chain. And as that passage dead heads it provides a relief to drain oil sludge, air pockets, etc. that would otherwise have no place to go.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
WOW great work Gary, digging the diagrams. Also looks like this is all getting sorted, I'm glad we are in agreement with Tim's mod being a basically sound idea. I do however have three things here to add/continue.
1. I do still think that the function of Tim's mod can be best done with the bearing instead of with a plug. Basically using the bearing to plug the whole.
2. I think the same thing should be considered for the passage from the #5 main to the drivers side lifters. I think if no additional flow is going to be routed back there then that passage needs to be restricted to prevent too much oil from leaving the #5 main. The lifter galley doesn't need a huge amount of oil.
3. I remembered a trick one of the old machinists I worked for does. He drills a small hole in the pipe plug that goes into the front of the passenger side lifter galley. This does two things, it provides a squirter that oils the timing chain. And as that passage dead heads it provides a relief to drain oil sludge, air pockets, etc. that would otherwise have no place to go.
1. I do still think that the function of Tim's mod can be best done with the bearing instead of with a plug. Basically using the bearing to plug the whole.
2. I think the same thing should be considered for the passage from the #5 main to the drivers side lifters. I think if no additional flow is going to be routed back there then that passage needs to be restricted to prevent too much oil from leaving the #5 main. The lifter galley doesn't need a huge amount of oil.
3. I remembered a trick one of the old machinists I worked for does. He drills a small hole in the pipe plug that goes into the front of the passenger side lifter galley. This does two things, it provides a squirter that oils the timing chain. And as that passage dead heads it provides a relief to drain oil sludge, air pockets, etc. that would otherwise have no place to go.
Thread Starter
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Status update: I survived surgery. Have slept the 4 hours since, wearing two sets of clothes and covered with 3 blankets. Finally warm enough to kick most of the blankets off, but not all. Forehead is still totally numb, so assume eye is as well, suggesting the lack of pain may be a hoax. And just discovered my glasses will just barely catch the end of my nose due to the patch so reading is a difficult. Hopefully the patch comes off tomorrow at the 5:00 checkup so I can at least compute.
Brute - When I can I'll fish the main bearing inserts out of the bin to better understand what you are saying on the mains. But I do like what you are saying about the gallery plug. In fact I read about someone doing something stat to better oil the timing chain, like Bill said. Any idea what size hole?
Brute - When I can I'll fish the main bearing inserts out of the bin to better understand what you are saying on the mains. But I do like what you are saying about the gallery plug. In fact I read about someone doing something stat to better oil the timing chain, like Bill said. Any idea what size hole?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
Small, likely the smallest hole you can drill. My smallest bit is #60 (.040") and I think that would be big enough. But could I actually drill that plug with a bit that small without breaking it, that would be tricky.
Ohh and you sound like you should know this but just in case, cobalt steal drill bits rock, very worth the money. I bought this set for $75 with a coupon, some of the best money I've ever spent. http://www.harborfreight.com/115-pie...set-47653.html
Ohh and you sound like you should know this but just in case, cobalt steal drill bits rock, very worth the money. I bought this set for $75 with a coupon, some of the best money I've ever spent. http://www.harborfreight.com/115-pie...set-47653.html
Thread Starter
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Thanks, guys. I know I have #60's as I bought three on the last project, which was the leak-down tester. And I know I broke one when drill the solder in the brass fitting, so I have at least two. But, having broken one in solder, I'm doubting my abilities to drill a steel pipe plug. Maybe I'd better go with Bill's idea of 1/16" as it is still quite small but much more substantial.
As for bits, I have a full set of fractionals in cobalt but my lettered and numbered bits are just high-speed steel. They rarely get used and came free, so have been adequate.
As for bits, I have a full set of fractionals in cobalt but my lettered and numbered bits are just high-speed steel. They rarely get used and came free, so have been adequate.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Brute, that looks like the set my late wife and I bought at one of these "tent" sales in a motel parking lot, I like the one that was found in a locker at NNS that no one claimed, much better drill bits.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
That's what Paul Kane uses on the 460 too.
He recommends a Dremel tool for high speed drilling in cast iron.
http://www.highflowdynamics.net
He recommends a Dremel tool for high speed drilling in cast iron.
http://www.highflowdynamics.net
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Paul specializes in jet boats.
They need to be able to survive sustained high rpm's under load as well as pop out of the hole.
I'd imagine driving the jet pump is as close to a load cell dyno as you're going to get in the real world.
Have a look at his other domain too.
http://www.highflowdynamics.com/
They need to be able to survive sustained high rpm's under load as well as pop out of the hole.
I'd imagine driving the jet pump is as close to a load cell dyno as you're going to get in the real world.
Have a look at his other domain too.
http://www.highflowdynamics.com/
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,575
Likes: 5
From: Broken Arrow , OK
I was going to suggest drilling a hole in the plug as well. Seemed like I read about oil restriction kits that was just that. A plug with a smaller hole.
I asked about it briefly during the Bronco build because I heard someone mention that high volume oil pumps could possibly pump all the oil into the upper portion of the motor during a long period of WOT.
I asked about it briefly during the Bronco build because I heard someone mention that high volume oil pumps could possibly pump all the oil into the upper portion of the motor during a long period of WOT.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Why are you hung up on high volume oil pumps Bruno?
Do roller lifters and sloppy bores really bypass that much oil?
Maybe you need to deburr, radius and add some more drainback holes like Paul outlined for the 460's?
Do roller lifters and sloppy bores really bypass that much oil?
Maybe you need to deburr, radius and add some more drainback holes like Paul outlined for the 460's?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 7
From: Over There
This is only an issue on a few engines, within very very limited and extreme circumstances the valve cover can fill. I've never even heard of any Ford having this issue nor is it really caused by a HV pump. Very few engines have oil pressure to any point within the head.