Gas vs PSD
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 11
From: Greenwood, SC
Krewat, you have to be the coolest moderator ever to let this thread keep going.
I'm sure the V10 is a great motor and would compare to the PSD (08 and newer) in real world application. My thing is this: I hate when the motor has to rev, downshift, search gears, etc. for every little hill. Just makes me cringe. I like the BEHAVIOR of the diesel (turbodiesel) better than the behavior of a gasser. I've tried both, the Chev 8.1, which I have over 300,000 miles logged on/with, and currently the 6.4 PSD. My life got better with the PSD.
I can tell you this. Compare the V10 to the Chev. 8.1! That was a strong motor.
And, I hated the Duramax. I put 100K on it and was glad to see it go.
I'm sure the V10 is a great motor and would compare to the PSD (08 and newer) in real world application. My thing is this: I hate when the motor has to rev, downshift, search gears, etc. for every little hill. Just makes me cringe. I like the BEHAVIOR of the diesel (turbodiesel) better than the behavior of a gasser. I've tried both, the Chev 8.1, which I have over 300,000 miles logged on/with, and currently the 6.4 PSD. My life got better with the PSD.
I can tell you this. Compare the V10 to the Chev. 8.1! That was a strong motor.
And, I hated the Duramax. I put 100K on it and was glad to see it go.
Last edited by ruschejj; Jul 24, 2009 at 06:16 PM. Reason: duramax
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 141
Likes: 1
Whose bringing the lube?
LMFAO. You guys aren't "funny haha", you're funny..... You know the rest.
Real trucks also have GVWRs in excess of 25k, have stacks for a purpose, displace over 8 liters, and usually have 10+ wheels.
You have a pickup truck, just so happens it's diesel fueled as are many other things such as generators, sunflower heaters, tractors, economy cars and even some riding lawn mowers. I don't claim my kubota diesel powered cub cadet riding lawn mower to be a REAL tractor, as you shouldn't claim to have a REAL truck just because of its fuel.
1. You ALWAYS have to change filters every 10-15k that cost more than all 10 of my plugs combined that I have to change every 100k.
2. Yes, lets talk about the "ejecting" of parts. Or even the "blowing" or "leaking" or how about even the "complete catastrophic failure" of some parts....(that last one should be a Registered Trademark of the Ford Motor Company when used in reference to the "powerstroke diesel") Don't go there, you diesel guys have much more to keep up on than us gassers do, such as EGR coolers, head gaskets and variable vane turbo failures. Two of those little examples cost more to repair on your diesels than the replacement of a complete 2v v10 engine.
If you would take a moment to go over to www.pickuptrucks.com and read the HD shootout test you'll see that yes, the diesel did start with a higher starting speed up a 15% grade with 10k behind it, But after a bit the diesel planed off and was stuck at one speed, the v10 was gaining spped at that point.
And I quote;
"Ford's F-250 and F-350 finally developed some unique performance patterns, even though they are using the same 5-speed TorqueShift transmission. But look at how well the V10 was running at the 250-meter finish line versus the V8 Power Stroke. Again the gasser was traveling faster than the compression ignition motor. The F-350's speedo barely inched up from 100-m to 250-m, while the F-250 gained over 6-mph."
This was going up a 15% grade with a 10k load.
I see PSD trucks on flatbed trailers DAILY. My v10 truck has never seen so much as a repair facility ever. Heck, I've only seen like 8 other V10 trucks period. PSDs are like a**holes, everyone has one.
HEY! I know another couple of things that diesels can do better than gas engines, and we wouldn't want to forget these;
1. leave you stranded often.
2. cost you 2-5 times more to repair and service.
3. get you real friendly with wrecker drivers and service representatives at dealers.
LOL, it's all in fun right?
BTW: the truck in my sig gets 10-13 mpg.
LMFAO. You guys aren't "funny haha", you're funny..... You know the rest.
Real trucks also have GVWRs in excess of 25k, have stacks for a purpose, displace over 8 liters, and usually have 10+ wheels.
You have a pickup truck, just so happens it's diesel fueled as are many other things such as generators, sunflower heaters, tractors, economy cars and even some riding lawn mowers. I don't claim my kubota diesel powered cub cadet riding lawn mower to be a REAL tractor, as you shouldn't claim to have a REAL truck just because of its fuel.
1. You ALWAYS have to change filters every 10-15k that cost more than all 10 of my plugs combined that I have to change every 100k.
2. Yes, lets talk about the "ejecting" of parts. Or even the "blowing" or "leaking" or how about even the "complete catastrophic failure" of some parts....(that last one should be a Registered Trademark of the Ford Motor Company when used in reference to the "powerstroke diesel") Don't go there, you diesel guys have much more to keep up on than us gassers do, such as EGR coolers, head gaskets and variable vane turbo failures. Two of those little examples cost more to repair on your diesels than the replacement of a complete 2v v10 engine.
If you would take a moment to go over to www.pickuptrucks.com and read the HD shootout test you'll see that yes, the diesel did start with a higher starting speed up a 15% grade with 10k behind it, But after a bit the diesel planed off and was stuck at one speed, the v10 was gaining spped at that point.
And I quote;
"Ford's F-250 and F-350 finally developed some unique performance patterns, even though they are using the same 5-speed TorqueShift transmission. But look at how well the V10 was running at the 250-meter finish line versus the V8 Power Stroke. Again the gasser was traveling faster than the compression ignition motor. The F-350's speedo barely inched up from 100-m to 250-m, while the F-250 gained over 6-mph."
This was going up a 15% grade with a 10k load.
I see PSD trucks on flatbed trailers DAILY. My v10 truck has never seen so much as a repair facility ever. Heck, I've only seen like 8 other V10 trucks period. PSDs are like a**holes, everyone has one.
HEY! I know another couple of things that diesels can do better than gas engines, and we wouldn't want to forget these;
1. leave you stranded often.
2. cost you 2-5 times more to repair and service.
3. get you real friendly with wrecker drivers and service representatives at dealers.
LOL, it's all in fun right?
BTW: the truck in my sig gets 10-13 mpg.
Holy crap! This one is hilarious. Too bad he/she's gone.
Funny part is, there wasn't so much as a peep in defense afterwards.
FTE Legend
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 37,887
Likes: 20
From: North Central Rural Sask.
The newer diesels must have some expensive filters, caused everyone always says they cost so much more to maintain.
I buy 0-40 weight synthetic oil for 100 bucks for a 20 liter pail. My oil filter costs 12 bucks each, air filter 20, fuel filter 20 (but I might have found a cheaper place with a better filter)
So besides the oil being a little more pricey, its not that much expensive.
I buy 0-40 weight synthetic oil for 100 bucks for a 20 liter pail. My oil filter costs 12 bucks each, air filter 20, fuel filter 20 (but I might have found a cheaper place with a better filter)
So besides the oil being a little more pricey, its not that much expensive.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
Likes: 20
From: McKenzie River
Reading this thread, I kind of laugh to myself........The HP and torque numbers being quoted for both the PSD and the V-10s are astronomical on paper........We used to tow 10 - 12 - 13,000lbs or more with 350s, 351w, 390s, 454s and 460s up some wicked hills back in the day. We still got where we were going just the same, and at some surprising speeds.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
This thread has migrated into a contest of power and speed. If that's the way it is then it should be a "heads up, run what ya brung" contest. I see several diesel boys ready. The V10 boys yackin' their pie hole won't touch anything but a stock diesel. I used to do a bit of drag racing and all I can say is the big talkers cry a lot too.
I had one of those cars that was faster than hell but couldn't get off the line. I lost to a lot of cars that wouldn't have a chance from a roll. But I didn't ever tell any of them they would have lost if this... or that...
They knew it was true without me saying anything at all. 
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 179
Likes: 3
From: Goose Creek, SC
Ok Destroya say we pulled the turbo off a 6.0. If it was designed as a NA diesel from the beginning think of the compression that could be run on it today. The NA 7.3 was what 17 years ago. Imagine what could be put out (power wise) with today's technology driving the motor. Look at a early 90's SBC 350 (275 hp) and then compare it to a 2004 SBC 350 (405 hp). You're looking at a difference of about 130 hp. You would probably end up with a difference of about the same with the diesel.
185 hp @ 3000 rpm becomes ~315 hp @ 3000 rpm
360 lb.-ft. @ 1600 rpm becomes ~530 lb.-ft @ 1600 rpm
You would end up with about the same numbers as the 6.0 puts out with a turbo. Both motors will tow pretty much whatever 90% of the people on the road have and then some. Whether or not one is better than the other is probably going to end up as a personal preference and be affected by the specific situation. If you're routinely pulling at the absolute limit of the trucks allowed weight you might want the PSD. If you are pulling loads infrequently then the V10 might be what you want because its maintenance is much less expensive in general and isn't as tempermental. Both motors have had their issues be it head gaskets blowing or spark plugs blowing but it doesn't mean one sucks and the other rules.
185 hp @ 3000 rpm becomes ~315 hp @ 3000 rpm
360 lb.-ft. @ 1600 rpm becomes ~530 lb.-ft @ 1600 rpm
You would end up with about the same numbers as the 6.0 puts out with a turbo. Both motors will tow pretty much whatever 90% of the people on the road have and then some. Whether or not one is better than the other is probably going to end up as a personal preference and be affected by the specific situation. If you're routinely pulling at the absolute limit of the trucks allowed weight you might want the PSD. If you are pulling loads infrequently then the V10 might be what you want because its maintenance is much less expensive in general and isn't as tempermental. Both motors have had their issues be it head gaskets blowing or spark plugs blowing but it doesn't mean one sucks and the other rules.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 141
Likes: 1
Ok Destroya say we pulled the turbo off a 6.0. If it was designed as a NA diesel from the beginning think of the compression that could be run on it today. The NA 7.3 was what 17 years ago. Imagine what could be put out (power wise) with today's technology driving the motor. Look at a early 90's SBC 350 (275 hp) and then compare it to a 2004 SBC 350 (405 hp). You're looking at a difference of about 130 hp. You would probably end up with a difference of about the same with the diesel.
185 hp @ 3000 rpm becomes ~315 hp @ 3000 rpm
360 lb.-ft. @ 1600 rpm becomes ~530 lb.-ft @ 1600 rpm
You would end up with about the same numbers as the 6.0 puts out with a turbo. Both motors will tow pretty much whatever 90% of the people on the road have and then some. Whether or not one is better than the other is probably going to end up as a personal preference and be affected by the specific situation. If you're routinely pulling at the absolute limit of the trucks allowed weight you might want the PSD. If you are pulling loads infrequently then the V10 might be what you want because its maintenance is much less expensive in general and isn't as tempermental. Both motors have had their issues be it head gaskets blowing or spark plugs blowing but it doesn't mean one sucks and the other rules.
185 hp @ 3000 rpm becomes ~315 hp @ 3000 rpm
360 lb.-ft. @ 1600 rpm becomes ~530 lb.-ft @ 1600 rpm
You would end up with about the same numbers as the 6.0 puts out with a turbo. Both motors will tow pretty much whatever 90% of the people on the road have and then some. Whether or not one is better than the other is probably going to end up as a personal preference and be affected by the specific situation. If you're routinely pulling at the absolute limit of the trucks allowed weight you might want the PSD. If you are pulling loads infrequently then the V10 might be what you want because its maintenance is much less expensive in general and isn't as tempermental. Both motors have had their issues be it head gaskets blowing or spark plugs blowing but it doesn't mean one sucks and the other rules.
The only reason I own a Super Duty is that it is the only thing that can do what I need it to do. Chevys blow up and are just plain ugly, Dodges are weak in the body department, have crappy transmissions. Toyota and Nissan must employ comedians when they say their trucks are "industrial grade". My V10 F350 can do whatever I throw at it and thats all I need it to do. Does it break every now and then? Yes, but all of them do. It just the severety of the breakdown that is of concern. The biggest thing that has ever happened to my truck was a busted lower ball joint due to an improper installation. I fixed it on my own for under $180. My truck has 156,760 on it as of today and has all of the original driveline components. My old '98 cummins dodge had already been on its 3rd trans at that point.
All in all, our trucks serve a purpose for whatever we need them to do. When it comes to which one is better, they all have thier downfalls and every year of production yields different issues.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
A turbo is not cheap. There is a good reason why almost every diesel made in the world today has a turbo and "Performance" is #1 on that list. I guarantee 99% of truck owners would not have bought a diesel if there were no turbochargers. The remaining 1% also drive farm tractors.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 179
Likes: 3
From: Goose Creek, SC
Destroya I was just making a point wasn't trying to jump on you or anything. If you thought the thread was a waste why post in it?
Crazy- Why couldn't a diesel make that power without a turbo? I've got a bike in my garage that it's horsepower to displacement ratio would give it 1020 hp if it was on a 6.8L scale. They could make the diesel do it without the turbo just like they make the gasser produce the power it does. They just realize that it's easier (and cheaper) to make the power with the turbo. The amount of money it would take to design and produce a diesel that would turn 6-7K rpm and survive for 200K+ miles would probably add 10-12K to the price on top of the current 7K diesel price tag.
Crazy- Why couldn't a diesel make that power without a turbo? I've got a bike in my garage that it's horsepower to displacement ratio would give it 1020 hp if it was on a 6.8L scale. They could make the diesel do it without the turbo just like they make the gasser produce the power it does. They just realize that it's easier (and cheaper) to make the power with the turbo. The amount of money it would take to design and produce a diesel that would turn 6-7K rpm and survive for 200K+ miles would probably add 10-12K to the price on top of the current 7K diesel price tag.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
A turbo not only raises effective compression but it adds a huge amount of air that would not be pulled in when naturally aspirated. This allows more fuel to be burned to generate greater power. That is one advantage of forced induction vs. naturally aspirated.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 179
Likes: 3
From: Goose Creek, SC
Destroya- If "This whole thread is a waste of time and precious server space." why stir the pot to make it continue?
QwkTrip I understand that a turbo putting out say 28# (~2 atmospheres) pushes another 2 volumes worth of air into a cylinder thereby increasing the cylinder pressure and therefore power. Why couldn't a diesel be built that came from the factory with that level of compression (~50:1?) NA? The engine would just have to spin higher rpms (like the gassers do) to generate the same amount of air movement through the engine. I'm just trying to make the point that having a turbo is not an advantage and not having a turbo isn't a disadvantage. It's all about the engineering that goes into the motor. I think I'll quit now.
QwkTrip I understand that a turbo putting out say 28# (~2 atmospheres) pushes another 2 volumes worth of air into a cylinder thereby increasing the cylinder pressure and therefore power. Why couldn't a diesel be built that came from the factory with that level of compression (~50:1?) NA? The engine would just have to spin higher rpms (like the gassers do) to generate the same amount of air movement through the engine. I'm just trying to make the point that having a turbo is not an advantage and not having a turbo isn't a disadvantage. It's all about the engineering that goes into the motor. I think I'll quit now.