heres some pics from our club meeting tonight. They are poor quality... or my camera didnt like the chevy and dodge in there! LOL

 

Nolan look quick there is a Chevy in the pic Hey there is also a excursion!!

 

Yeah my dad was too cheap to get tinted windows on the sport truck, but Das Dieshal's windows are tinted.

 

Nick, I think I would probably look at a bobcat brand. Theres a pretty good dealer here, and Ive operated one for few years off and on, and I liked it. It got beat on pretty good from some of the other guys, and it kept on ticking.

I would check out others though, final price seems to sway my thoughts on it haha.

 

Stay away from Bobcrap.

Ingersoll Rand ran them straight into the ground. They pumped out machine after machine with no R&D. They were recently bought by Doosan, but they're behind all others by leaps and bounds technilogically.

Deere machines are vertical lift instead of radial lift like CAT. The arms on a vertical lift machine block your view of your wheels/tracks depending on what you're using. That can cause you to run into things.

If you're looking for a used wheeled machine CAT is the way to go. No substitute. We've got a 2006 CAT 236B skid with full cab, A/C, and a hydraulic quick coupler. It had a hair under 400 hours when we bought it. We paid 23 or 24 thousand two years ago.

If you're looking for tracks you've got a bit to learn. CAT uses what's known as an MTL or Multi Terrain Loader. It utilizes wider tracks with rubber idlers. It has much better flotation in mud and much better traction on snow and ice.

Deere, Case, and Bobcat use the CTL or Compact tracked loader system. It is not as good in mud and does not have as much traction in ice and snow. It utilizes steel idlers which far outlast the rubber of the CAT/ASV MTL system. The MTL is also more expensive to rebuild. Rebuilding a CAT MTL undercarriage can cost upwards of 6,500$ and that's not even in Canadian dollars.

The CTL is better if you're just pushing dry dirt or shuttling crushed stone. Crushed stone can be brutal on the rubber MTL idlers.

CAT has recently introduced their own line of CTL machines in addition to their MTL machines.

When it comes to CAT any model designation ending in 6 or 8 is wheeled. 7 is an MTL and 9 is a CTL. CAT did not introduce their CTL line until the C series machines.

So for example a 236 is wheeled. A 297 is an MTL, and a 289 is a CTL.

The C series is the first series of CAT skidsteers/MTLs/CTLs to use a fully sealed cab. The A series (plain 236 no B or B2 or C designation) had a very poorly sealed cab. The B series improved a little, but not quite sealed up yet. It'll keep you dry and warm or cool depending on what you want, but it's not sealed up tight enough to stop all dust. The C series is sealed up TIGHT to stop dust. They're EXPENSIVE though.

If I was going with a used CTL it would probably be a Case. I hate the Deere machines and Bobcrap stinks so that really only leaves Case. New Holland has the same issues as Deere when it comes to visibility since they use a vertical lift as well.

Whatever you do STAY AWAY FROM DEERE when it comes to skids though. They use a goofy door system. I ran a Deere CT332 which is the largest Deere CTL. I am 6'0 and around 160-170 with size 11.5 boots. I had to twist my feet sideways to slide them between the seat and the front of the Deere cab. Once they were down there I could twist them forward. I had to contort myself into a VERY odd position to shut the goofy Deere door. Plus Deere uses a seatbelt system instead of lap bar system. It might not seem that bad when you demo the machine, but if you're in and out of the machine at all it'll really irritate you because you have to buckle the seatbelt every time you want to disengage the parking brake. No you can't leave it buckled behind you. You have to rebuckle it EVERY STINKIN TIME.

Sorry for writing a book here, everyone.

 

Some good info there.

Ill be buying used, most likely something around 2000ish hours. The ones i was looking at were 873's. Never really did look much at cat ones. Ive heard guys say to stay away from them, but never really heard why.

I havent bothered to research into it yet either, because i wont be getting one untill maybe next winter, or if not then, next spring.

I have driven a few JD's(not very much though) and I sure liked the way the bobcat performed and handled compared to the JD.

Im staying away from a tracked machine, i dont need one.

 

I think bobcats are way too tippsy, the older Deeres that look like new hollands(cause thats all they are rebadged NHs with deere engines) newer cases are good cause NH owns all of Case. Cats are allright, I haven't run them much. New Hollands are the best IMHO. Real responsive and precise controls good lifting capabilities, real stable.

 

They say stay away because they're used to the freakin Bobcrap rowing oars.

Not the smooth as a baby's bottom CAT pilot controls.

Keep in mind I've run Bobcat, CAT, Deere, and Case machines. My personal preferences are the CAT and Case machines. I hate vertical lift machines because of reduced visibility the CAT and Case are both radial lift machines.

 

Pete you have just brought up some of the best info I have ever seen. Reps to you. I will keep every thing you just said in mind when I go to the Ag show all of next week. All the big brands are going to be there and I will now know what to look for and thanks for the warning on the Deer. I can't wait to try and shove my size 14 Cat boots into there.

 

I was just doing a quick read on radial VS vertical, and vertical lift does lift higher without being tippy.

Being that I would be loading materials into my truck, and I do have fairly tall sides, that is something i would have to consider also.

 

Get inside a Deere machine while you're there if at all possible. I guarantee it's the most awkward machine entry ever.

You also can't see the tracks past the boom.

The Bobcats were OK as far as performance, but for features and creature comforts they are, as I said, leaps and bounds behind everyone else.

They are definitely not operator comfort oriented.

I ran a T190 with rotary brush cutter on it for a week or so. Even being as young as I am I felt it in my back and bones for the next month. Nevermind the BAD case of poison ivy I got since it was OROPS. I also ran a T300 with FECON mulching head. The Bobcat didn't quite have the nut to keep it going, but it the fecon also uses straight rows of teeth instead of spirals which makes for more resistance causing more cutter head stalling. The thing I hated about the Bobcat was that whenever you stalled out the cutter head the bucket roll cylinders went limp and the attachment flopped forward. It did that on the T190 and T300.

I could run our CAT 236B for weeks and not feel it at all. Much more comfortable. The new C series even uses a suspension seat with the controls attached to the seat so your arms aren't flopping around when the seat goes up and down.

 

I'd use the backhoe to load the truck or get a high dump bucket before I went with vertical lift.

You just lose SO much visibility with vertical lift that it's pathetic.

I'll be back tomorrow afternoon to finish this debate. It's time to go to bed now.

Also I wouldn't be caught dead with a machine that used a manual coupler.

We had a 236A before we got our current 236B. Half the time we ran around with only one coupler engaged because we couldn't get the coupler shut. I can't even begin to count how many knuckle busters and skinned shins I got from those manual couplers. With the hydraulic coupler you roll up, hit the button, roll out, roll into the new attachment, hit the button again, drive away.

The manual coupler procedure is:

Roll up. Shake bucket up and down a few times. Try pulling up on coupler handle. Cuss at coupler handle a few times. Get other guy. Shake bucket while other guy tries moving coupler handle with pipe. Cuss at coupler some more. Finally get it undone. Repeat procedure with other side. Roll out. Hook onto new attachment. Cuss some more because the manual coupler's handles are in the way when trying to hook onto pallet forks. Push handles down a little bit more. Jump up and down on coupler. Foot slides off coupler. Skin shins while falling off coupler handle. Get handle halfway engaged. Repeat on other side.

Don't go without a hydraulic coupler.

 

Pete check you Pm real quick!

 

The Vert. lifting system on the Deeres and NHs are better for heavy lifting, we got 2 NHs and had 3 more before that. We have a bobcat but it runs only in the barns. My dad bought a JD 270 the thing was a huge pile so they gave him a brand new 270 series 2 Free, that has been pretty good. The door on the Deeres is goofy but you get used to it, its made to be able too open with the boom halfway up.

 

So Jacob whats your vote then?