I didn't have time earlier to respond to this :

When you fit the new replacement , and you're checking the ground wire to ensure 0 ohms, move the vac adv arm while you're doing it, to see if the ohms changes. This might be a stupid test, but try it anyway.

 

Today did not go as planned at all. How's that for a start? Like usual I'll jump to the end and provide current running condition then back into the steps to get there.

The engine cranks but doesn't fire.

New stator from NAPA #MP700SB. Clearly manufactured by Standard Ignition but built better. No slop between the magnet and baseplate like the two previous SI LX204's. I now have 3 stators in my possession. The NAPA, a SI that worked briefly and a Master Pro. The ohm readings across the coils were 608, 566 and 471 respectively.

I installed the NAPA stator and conducted the resistance test from both the orange and purple pins in the connector to the ignition module, to engine ground (the 70k ohm test). Infinity just like the other two. Open circuit which should be a good thing. I also scraped the surface where the ICM mounts to assure a good ground on that unit.

It wouldn't start which I took as a good thing as timing should be retarded if the stator is functioning. I advanced the dizzy until it would start but could never get it to idle even after a significant amount of dizzy twist; really rough and a lot of throttle action. When I got a cough through the carb during one start attempt I began retarding by a couple of degrees at a time but it never fired again. The battery was running low so I put a charger on it while I pulled the dizzy cap and set initial time by aligning the stator and armature with the timing mark on 12*. Engine still won't fire.

At that point I began taking some voltage and resistance tests. Primary coil resistance: 1.6 ohms and secondary: 9,060. Good. 624 ohms across the stator leads. Good. 13.2 volts (battery is on charger) at the ICM in Run. Good. 13.1 volts at coil. Wait! What?? This is the RESISTED wire I checked last night that had 5.75 volts. What the he!!??

That made me go back and look at my notes. Last night I said that was the first time I had checked the coil feed wire in Run. That's far from the truth. I count 5 times before then last night and then today. 7 times. And 4 were recorded with ranges of 5.75 - 6.13 while the other 3 have a range of 12 - 13.1. Not consecutively either. High voltage followed a few days later by low then maybe high, maybe low the next time. Again I ask what the he!!?

How is it even conceivable a wire can have different voltages like this? I know what I've seen and recorded. How I didn't recognize this until now is baffling to me. I need those tablets from 77 HOS followed by a couple of strong shots.

 

I sat down to watch ''The real Go Seahawks! of FTE'', season 2, episode 937, and my heart sank as I read sentence 2.

Before I got to finish reading the post, a fuse blew in my hearing aid. FFS !

This series has gone beyond silly. It is annoying, frustrating, gets under the skin and then some, consumes time, and yet, is still very addictive.

I hope that the battery is/was not on overnight charge. I think it will be dead soon. If not on charge, read the voltage. I reckon low 12's.

Return the Napa MP700SB pickup to Napa and exchange it for the Echlin, if you can, and get a new battery while you're at it.

I'm hoping that Echlin's quality hasn't declined over the years.

Umm, hello ? You read the coil voltage 40 times with differing readings and kept it a secret until now !!!

Do not fit the Echlin until you have verified, with 100% absolute certainty, that the coil + voltage is in the range 4.9 - 7.9v.
(Note point 2 under 'battery source test' in your shop manual. Read the voltage with and without that wire, and post up the results please. I'm curious to see if there's a difference.)

I managed to find a 1974 solid state wiring diagram, but, here we go again, different bloody colors with 7 wires instead of 6 exiting the ICM.

The common theme in all of the diagrams is 1.4 ohms resistance in the run circuit to coil +.

That makes total sense. (12v supply reduced to 4.9-7.9v at the coil +.)

So ! If you read 12v at the coil again, we can immediately suspect a fault in the resistor wire. (Which is where ? LOL)

Before the introduction of the GS-19 virus, the entire electrical wiring worked.

Post GS-19 virus, the wiring still appeared to be working, which was proven with one of the new pickups working 100%.

Maybe, and that's a big maybe, the resistor wire, if faulty, is a genuine coincidence, just like the HT leads.

Hmm, let's see.

Stay away from shots, weak or strong, but by all means take the tablets if 77 HOS has any left and is still willing to give some to you.

 

I’ve inserted some responses and comments above.

This whole affair has passed from ridiculous to ludicrous. I am at a loss to understand how a simple dizzy recurve can turn into such a mess. I haven’t exactly thrown parts at it blindly BUT the entire ignition system has been replaced and not just once in a couple of instances:
*distributor, cap, rotor
*stator x 4
*ICM
*coil x 2
*HT leads
*plugs

Now we both have attentions drawn to the resistor wire.

I agree with not putting another new stator in the system without first confirming low voltage at the coil. I have 3 stators on the bench that have all been in-system when there was battery voltage to the coil so if they’re damaged they are damaged. However the engine never ran well, and now will not fire, with the currently-installed Echlin. I’m going to switch it out for the SI to see if it will fire then go from there.

I found the voltage discrepancy while reviewing my notes from the last couple of weeks. It makes me wonder what else I’m missing. My note keeping has become considerably more detailed as time has gone by. I’m going to go back through them and look for the missing link before throwing any more parts at it.

I’ve also begun considering taking it to a local garage I trust and having them take a look. They have an oscilloscope which would be extraordinarily useful right now. So far I’ve resisted (no pun intended) doing that but it may be time to put ego aside and “pay for an education”. *sigh*

I’ll post back with results of the stator change which may not be for a day or so.

Stay tuned for the next riveting episode of “The Real Go Seahawks! of FTE”.

 

I meant to be more specific about the battery.

What I should have said was, given that your battery is +/- 7 years old, and that it read 12.26v recently, I think it is dying. (''Normal'' expected life span is 5 years.)

Only way to tell is to measure the voltage between the + and - , at least 8 hours after it has been charged.

You bought the $34 pickup. I'm suggesting you exchange it for the $47 one with part number ECH MP700.

I believe Echlin is made in the USA and the other one is made in the 51st state. (I don't know for sure.)

I'm still giving some benefit of the doubt to the pickups, maybe stupidly, but I have one last consideration (a.k.a. grasp at straws).

Using the second picture in post 91, on page 7, way back in the abyss, I have to ask, is there a chance that there is a fault in the wiring hidden under the neat wire covering ?

I.E. D'ya wanna check it out ?

Hang on, we've got this far, and you're considering taking the Ranchero to the local garage ????? Yeah, that's your head on the left. LOL

That's like walking into your TV room and turning off the TV, while it's half way through Season 11, episode 24, the finale, of the annoying housewives from somewhere, while Mrs GS! is watching it.

Or, worse still, Mrs GS! turning off the TV 10 minutes before the end of an NFL game while Mr GS! is watching it.

Mind you, using an oscilloscope wouldn't hurt.

It's not about ego, but rather time and inclination.

Funnily enough, we won't know how big a mess this is/was until the fault has been identified and fixed.

That said, the bad news is that you haven't even finished the timing curve yet. Are 10L's even available ?

I'm not sure how many $$$$'s the local mechanic would charge you, but I'll take this opportunity to share my real thoughts.

I really am keen to see the problem identified and fixed, especially as the relief and sense of satisfaction will more than make up for the headaches challenges thus far.

However, given that dialing in the curve, perfectly, will more likely than not be a nuisance, I'd either sell the entire ignition system to someone I don't like, or bin it.

The replacement would be a modern coil/dizzy combo (no external ICM and wiring required) costing +/-$400, or a modern HEI /dizzy (with no external coil or ICM) costing +/- $150.

Either setup could be faulty right out of the box though.

I think you will resist both alternate options. (Pun intended. LOL)

Enjoy the rest of your 'I'm taking a break from this ignition crap' weekend.

 

Funny thing about the two Echlin stators. While I was at the NAPA store to pick up the MP700SB I asked to look at the higher-priced MP700. They were 100% the same part in every way in outward appearance. The only difference appears to be the warranty: 12 months in the SB and 36 months for the non-suffix model.

 

Ah, Ok, I can understand the hesitation (lack of trust) when considering buying the ''Echlin''.

I'd want to see some sort of differentiation.

You'd think at some point during this season of “The Real Go Seahawks! of FTE” you'd be cut some slack !!

 

Do you have any theory as to how a resistor (wire) can alternate between two voltages? How can voltage bypass the resistor if I’m envision things correctly looking at the bottom wiring diagram on page 7, which is the most like mine (except wire/plug configuration)?

 

To be blunt, I'm not going to entertain any diagram other than that in page 4, which is the closest to your actual wiring.

The squiggle line between lines 3 and 4 is the resistor wire, even though 4 is a ghost !!??? LOL

My theory was more like a guess, based on no experience ever with a resistor wire losing resistance.

I imagined that somehow the resistor wire dropped its resistance from 1.4ohm say to 0.9 ohm say.

Those comments are probably total BS.

My subsequent mental guess was that assuming you have a resistor wire, it had damage, and was connecting/disconnecting at will.

I'm keen to hear what you say about the coil + readings when you've read and digested your notes.

 

Still referencing page 4, the red wire leaving the ICM at point 3, might actually be the one going directly to the coil.

I reckon you should unwrap the wire covers and check.

I can't give any sound advice without knowing for sure what the coil + voltage is.

If you definitely read, 5v, 12v, etc, which I reckon you did, then opening up the wiring (engine bay only) is the only way to see exactly what's what.

 

A faulty ignition switch might explain this. Maybe sometimes sending Start voltage (battery) to the coil in Run (resisted)? I’m going to try jiggling the key in the ignition next time I’m working on this and see if that changes whatever reading I initially get.

 

Given that we are looking for something faulty, including anything silly, and your logic with the key is silly, it's a good idea !!

 

To start, before I forget my battery is holding 12.3 V, cold. So it’s hanging in there! Barely.

The only thing I have done since my last post is test my theory that jiggling the ignition switch might affect the voltage at the coil. Nope. Battery voltage.

That’s not exactly true. I have spent a lot of time thinking through things and have come up with a theory. I’m 99.9% sure that establishing between 4.9 and 6.6 volts specified at the coil will cure all ills and the engine will run like a top with vac advance connected.

Here is the page in the Ford Manual that describes Circuit Operation:



There is mention of a timing circuit.

Separately, on page 6 of the PDF under solid state ignition about halfway down the page, the last paragraph says dwell varies with the engine speed and cannot be changed.

A couple of weeks ago or so 6 by 8 posted a
thread from a Bronco forum that supported the stator as being the source of the problem of not running on vac advance. That poster used the term “out of phase”. I didn’t fully understand the term but it stuck with me.

The Ford ignition wiring diagram on page 4 shows battery power fed through the ignition switch to both the coil and module (white wire) in Start. It switches to the resisted red wire to feed both components in Run.

My theory starts with the module retarding spark during Start (battery voltage, call it 12) then returns it back to initial during Run (6 volts, say). Plausible. But wait! What if instead of seeing 6 volts in Run the module sees something way above the specified upper limit of 6.6, like maybe 12? My theory is the retarded Start spark is never returned to Run/initial as long as there is 12 volts on the 6 volt part of the ignition system. That explains the big dizzy swings I’ve had to make at different times. The control module is “out of phase” with it!

I’ve been chasing a non-existent stator problem as evidenced by every one of them being within resistance tolerance when the engine still wasn’t running right. The one time it ran well, briefly, I did not take voltage readings (grrrr). The most recent time was a couple of days prior to that and it was under 6 volts.

I’m sure the existing resistor wire will test bad when I get access to the ignition switch on the steering column. To accomplish that I first have to remove the gauge cluster, not a fun job that I’ve done a number of times. Old plastic tabs are highly susceptible to breakage and damage. I’ve ordered a new resistor wire (Standard Motors p/n RW34 which replaces Ford p/n C0LF-12250-A) to have on hand. Then the fun begins splicing the new wire into the harness, and cutting and isolating the old one.

Here are the pages from the manual that describes testing and replacement procedures (Ford, Mercury and Meteor). The installation instructions end on step 11 and it doesn’t continue on the next page, but the steps to finish seem obvious.






I hope to find time to spend in the shop before Wednesday. We have company coming for the Thanksgiving holiday that day and I’ll be MIA after that until next week.

Until there’s more…….

 

With the ignition turned on, and the engine not running, please measure the voltage :

1/ At the coil +, with everything still connected. MM+ to Coil + and MM- to a good known ground.

2/ Remove the power supply (red wire) from the coil +, and measure the red wire voltage. MM+ to red wire, and MM- to the same ground.

Regardless of whether this has already been done before or not, I'd like to see those numbers as they stand now.

Don't touch or change anything else, focus on 1 and 2 only.

More comments to follow later.

 

1/ Get a new battery sooner rather than later.

2/ Not surprised to read ''Nope''. Battery voltage at the coil. Hmm. The numbers requested in the last post will shine a lot of light on matters.

3/ No, it's not a theory, it's reality. Look at page 4 again, and assume for now that we have the blue wire. (PDF attached for ease of reference by anyone else reading this.)

The 1.4 ohm resistor wire from point 3, red wire, to point 4 blue wire, is intended to give us 6v at the coil. (Using a round number.)

Yes, your 99.9% thinking is correct.