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I’ve been reading through this thread and like a lot of folks I’m trying to figure out exactly what my towing capabilities are. I recently purchased an 2017 F250 6.7L Powerstroke Lariet 4x4 Crew Cab with the 6.75 ft bed. It has the High Capacity Tow Package (HCTP), 3.55 ratio, and the 20” tires. My payload sticker comes in at a mere 2225 and my GVWR is the 10,000lbs. Folks tell me I basically have F350 in disguise. I’m planning on towing a fifth wheel with a dry weight of 11,058, gross weight of 13,817, and pin wight of 1817.
No matter how I cut it, I will be at or above pin weight. My questions are:
Is there any way to really tell what the capabilities of my truck are?
Does my labels reflect the added capability of the HCTP (upgraded axle, increased GCW, max front springs, and the extra leaf springs).
If the labels are updated, how can I find out what the HCTP added to my capabilities.
I’m pretty confident that my truck will handle what I want to do with it nicely, I’m just trying to back it up with the math and as many of you have said - the payload sticker is the problem. I’d prefer to be under the towing specs, and I am. Right now I’m at 25lbs available payload with the specs listed above.
I have a friend that has the exact same configuration in 2015 F350 and he is at GVWR of 11, 300, and payload of approx. 3500. I know it’s a different model year, but how are we so far apart. He does have an 8’ bed - is that the difference.
Finally, I understand from this thread that the F250 is under rated to keep it in its class, but there has to be away to figure out what the HCTP did to increase capabilities over a stock F250. I look forward to reading the comments and appreciate input/points of view.
The “weak link”, if you will, is the rear spring packs. Regardless of whether the 2017 F-250 is fitted with standard three-leaf- or optional four-leaf rear spring packs, each pair is rated at 6340 lbs.
See below for the contents of the 2017 F-250 HCTTP.
Although your particular truck shares many of the components found a 2017 F-350 SRW Diesel, it’s not an F-350 in disguise. All 2017 F-350 SRW’s with the optional Diesel engine were fitted with five-leaf rear spring packs rated at 7230 lbs. / pair.
Your friend’s 2015 F-350’s GVWR spec of 11,300 lbs. suggests it is fitted with five-leaf rear spring packs rate at 7,000 lbs. but was fitted with “small” tires and/or a lower rear tire pressure spec at the factory which limited his truck’s rear GAWR to 6730 lbs. (check the labels on his truck’s B pillar).
I pulled 26k once with a windstar mini van…I was impressed that it handled it…but…after the trip…there was a thumping sound that increased in frequency with engine speed…probally the crank bearings from being over loaded. It handled it…but it didn’t handle it.
Thats some hillybilly type $!ht. Did you hit some meth before taking off?
The “weak link”, if you will, is the rear spring packs. Regardless of whether the 2017 F-250 is fitted with standard three-leaf- or optional four-leaf rear spring packs, each pair is rated at 6340 lbs.
See below for the contents of the 2017 F-250 HCTTP.
Although your particular truck shares many of the components found a 2017 F-350 SRW Diesel, it’s not an F-350 in disguise. All 2017 F-350 SRW’s with the optional Diesel engine were fitted with five-leaf rear spring packs rated at 7230 lbs. / pair.
Your friend’s 2015 F-350’s GVWR spec of 11,300 lbs. suggests it is fitted with five-leaf rear spring packs rate at 7,000 lbs. but was fitted with “small” tires and/or a lower rear tire pressure spec at the factory which limited his truck’s rear GAWR to 6730 lbs. (check the labels on his truck’s B pillar).
HTH,
Jim / crewzer
Every F250 has a RAWR of 6340. It does matter if you have the Dana or the Sterling axle, or the three or four leaf spring pack. The tire and wheel combination also makes no difference. That is even true for the 20-21 trucke with the increased GVWR. Of course that doesn't make logical sense. How can you add components that enhance the capability of the suspension without increasing the capacity? The answer seems clear to me. The numbers are contrived and the real limiting factor is the GVWR. It wouldn't make sense to have a 250 and 350 with nearly identical capacities.
Here are my F-350 door stickers. I tow 10K travel trailer with 1500-2000lbs worth of camping supplies ie fire wood, extra beer, water etc in the bed. I have a CCLB lariat ultimate. Insurance cost me $1300 a year and CA registration is $890 with all hate fees from the state.
moving to Idaho in 45 days work transfer. Happy about that!!!
cost depending where you are cannot be worse than CA.
my vote just get the 350 if you spend 60-75K on a truck the extra fees don’t matter.
BETTER TO HAVE IT AND NOT NEED IT THEN NEED IT AND NOT HAVE IT. Trucks are like guns.
Here are my F-350 door stickers. I tow 10K travel trailer with 1500-2000lbs worth of camping supplies ie fire wood, extra beer, water etc in the bed. I have a CCLB lariat ultimate. Insurance cost me $1300 a year and CA registration is $890 with all hate fees from the state.
moving to Idaho in 45 days work transfer. Happy about that!!!
cost depending where you are cannot be worse than CA.
my vote just get the 350 if you spend 60-75K on a truck the extra fees don’t matter.
BETTER TO HAVE IT AND NOT NEED IT THEN NEED IT AND NOT HAVE IT. Trucks are like guns.
Wow, there must be a big difference between the 19's and the 22's. I see you have a Lariat Ultimate though... so I guess the lower payload is from all the add ons? I don't have my truck yet (any day though... it's been shipped!!!), but I went with a 250 with the 6.7 and am anticipating a 3000 or just over payload! Of course I added the HCTT and the snow plow/camper package, so there isn't any actual differences between my truck and a 350, other than the paper derate... but I am super excited about the payload on my 250. My campers a little smaller at only 6k GVWR, but I anticipate only about 1800 lbs of payload (people, gear and tongue weight), leaving me an easy 1200 lbs to play with! We may go to something slightly heavier later on, but don't anticipate ever going over the 10K limit, so this will be perfect for us. Considering all of this though, there was no need for us to go 350 (cause we actually have one! lol)
As far as tags and insurance, here in MS I will be able to get a B16 tag for $389, however, if it were a simple passenger tag, it would easily be $1k or more. My insurance at Farm Bureau will cost me about $1078 a year, which is only about $78 a year more than what we were paying for our 16 Pathfinder Platinum. I was happy that there wasn't a big jump in price for insurance, and stoked that I will be able to get a much less expensive tag for it!
Wow, there must be a big difference between the 19's and the 22's. I see you have a Lariat Ultimate though... so I guess the lower payload is from all the add ons? I don't have my truck yet (any day though... it's been shipped!!!), but I went with a 250 with the 6.7 and am anticipating a 3000 or just over payload! Of course I added the HCTT and the snow plow/camper package, so there isn't any actual differences between my truck and a 350, other than the paper derate... but I am super excited about the payload on my 250. My campers a little smaller at only 6k GVWR, but I anticipate only about 1800 lbs of payload (people, gear and tongue weight), leaving me an easy 1200 lbs to play with! We may go to something slightly heavier later on, but don't anticipate ever going over the 10K limit, so this will be perfect for us. Considering all of this though, there was no need for us to go 350 (cause we actually have one! lol)
As far as tags and insurance, here in MS I will be able to get a B16 tag for $389, however, if it were a simple passenger tag, it would easily be $1k or more. My insurance at Farm Bureau will cost me about $1078 a year, which is only about $78 a year more than what we were paying for our 16 Pathfinder Platinum. I was happy that there wasn't a big jump in price for insurance, and stoked that I will be able to get a much less expensive tag for it!
My F-350 Platinum CCLB with the 6.7 came with a 12,400lb GVWR, which helps push the payload up a little over 3k. I'm not sure if the F-250 CCLB with the HCTT will have a 12,400 GVWR, so your payload may not be as high as you hoped for. In addition, if you don't have the 12,400 GVWR, you'll also be missing out on hydro-boost brakes. Not sure how much that means to you.
The F-250 with HCTT vs. F-350 are extremely similar, but there are a few differences. Not trying to diminish your new truck, I'm sure it will do everything an F-350 can do.
Edit: Just re-read your message and if you're ancitipating 1800 lbs. payload, then I think you're spot on given my statements are true. If your F-250 with HCTT does come with a 12,400 GVWR, then I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with a higher payload.
My F-350 Platinum CCLB with the 6.7 came with a 12,400lb GVWR, which helps push the payload up a little over 3k. I'm not sure if the F-250 CCLB with the HCTT will have a 12,400 GVWR, so your payload may not be as high as you hoped for. In addition, if you don't have the 12,400 GVWR, you'll also be missing out on hydro-boost brakes. Not sure how much that means to you.
The F-250 with HCTT vs. F-350 are extremely similar, but there are a few differences. Not trying to diminish your new truck, I'm sure it will do everything an F-350 can do.
Mine is a CCSB. I quoted this number because of other payloads I have seen. We had almost my exact truck come in to the lot recently, but it had the XLT Premium whereas mine is XLT value, and it did not have the snow plow/camper package, or the HCTT package. The payload on that truck was 2362, 638 lbs from 3000 lbs. My truck will have the higher 10800 lb GVWR, however, I expect the heavier rear axle and extra leaf springs to take up about 150 of that 800 lbs, so I should get about another 650 lbs more than this truck which would put it at 3012, but I'll just call it 3000.
If I am not mistaken, the 350 long bed (like yours) is where the hydroboost brakes start, however, the 350 short bed gets the exact same set up as my 250 SB. This has been hashed out a number of times in many threads here... for 22's anyway, a 350 CCSB is not different mechanically from a 250 with HCTT.
Edit: Just re-read your message and if you're ancitipating 1800 lbs. payload, then I think you're spot on given my statements are true. If your F-250 with HCTT does come with a 12,400 GVWR, then I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with a higher payload.
I think you are confusing all the numbers... note that the GVWR's are different for 350's whether they are long bed or short bed. Like in the photo above, his 350 short bed only has a GVWR of 11500 lbs. If I remember correctly, you have to go to the long bed (like yours) to get the 12400....
250's come with a 10000 GVWR unless they choose the HCTT package which makes it 10800 lbs. No 250 will have a listed GVWR over 10800 lbs.
I think you confused what I was saying too... I will have about 1800 lbs of stuff I will load in my truck (people. cargo and tongue weight). Based on other trucks that I have actually seen stickers for that are very similar builds as mine though, I am anticipating that mine will most likely have a 3000 lb payload rating. So after I add my 1800 lbs of stuff to my truck, this will actually leave me around another 1200 lbs of payload that is unused because my truck will be rated at around 3000 lbs total.
I wanted all the comforts like, leather, heated/cooled seats, rear heated seats all the stuff I will need in Idaho. I figured if I ever bought a 5th wheel I would just calculate what I can tow under the 26K max combined weight, pin weight with room to load the trailer and minimize the payload besides me the wife and 2 dogs. I am retiring in 3-5 years and dont have the time to add all the goodies I want after the fact. That is a young mans game, HA HA!
When I bought my truck the window was 74K and change, with the deal and PCO I got I paid 59K can’t complain about that. I bought it in anticipation of my work transfer to Idaho and maybe upgrading to a 5er in the future.
Everyone has their wants and needs. I didn’t need an F350 but wanted it and there was zero costs to ponder with the deal I got.
Easier to upgrade trailers, 5ers etc to meet the bigger vehicle than buy another truck (in this market) to meet the trailer needs. I always figured bigger is better.
Every F250 has a RAWR of 6340. It does matter if you have the Dana or the Sterling axle, or the three or four leaf spring pack. The tire and wheel combination also makes no difference. That is even true for the 20-21 trucke with the increased GVWR. Of course that doesn't make logical sense. How can you add components that enhance the capability of the suspension without increasing the capacity? The answer seems clear to me. The numbers are contrived and the real limiting factor is the GVWR. It wouldn't make sense to have a 250 and 350 with nearly identical capacities.
I would suggest the answer depends on the design intent and the intended purpose of the added components.
The F-250’s four-leaf springs are actually a “3+1” configuration. The “+1” leaf is described by Ford as an auxiliary leaf, aka an “overload” spring. Under a range of normal conditions, it’s not even engaged, as the stock gap between the aux leaf and its bump stops is ~4 inches. But, under dynamic conditions and a heavy but within-spec load, the aux springs will engage shortly before the axle hits its bump stops.
I interpret this design (along with the rear stabilizer bar) to be intended to help control heavy and sustained standard loads (i.e., truck campers) under extreme dynamic conditions, not to increase static load capacity.
Moving up a leaf, so to speak, the four primary leaves in our F-350’s “4+1” rear suspension increase the load capacity, and the “+1” aux springs help with heavy dynamic load control.
I would suggest the answer depends on the design intent and the intended purpose of the added components.
The F-250’s four-leaf springs are actually a “3+1” configuration. The “+1” leaf is described by Ford as an auxiliary leaf, aka an “overload” spring. Under a range of normal conditions, it’s not even engaged, as the stock gap between the aux leaf and its bump stops is ~4 inches. But, under dynamic conditions and a heavy but within-spec load, the aux springs will engage shortly before the axle hits its bump stops.
I interpret this design (along with the rear stabilizer bar) to be intended to help control heavy and consistent standard loads (i.e., truck campers) under extreme dynamic conditions, not to increase static load capacity.
Moving up a leaf, so to speak, the four primary leaves in our F-350’s “4+1” rear suspension increase the load capacity, and the “+1” aux springs help with heavy dynamic load control.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
HTH,
Jim / crewzer
Makes sense when comparing 17-19 250’s and 350's. It becomes a bit more convoluted when talking 20-22, since the 250 with HCTT now has 4+1 like the 350.
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My questions are:
