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I'm glad you found that before the flexing destroyed the potmetal casting.
Pedal supports are not easy to come by.
Compare the filler neck angle with one of your other trucks.
The bricknose and later trucks had a different pitch inside the filler door and the neck changed to accommodate.
Maybe someone mistakenly thought 'opening this thing up has got to make it flow better'
Then the hose gets pinched and turbulence between the fuel flowing down and the vapor escaping trips the nozzle every time.
Gary, the earlier filler has the filler pipe going down the outside if I remember correctly and the later design is reversed, filler is the inside tube and vent goes up around it. If the inside tube (hard plastic) was left out of either style it will be a royal bitch to fill. I would first look at the parts CD and see if it has a good picture of the filler hoses.
Yes, that does look like a later filler neck, and may mean the tanks were updated. Since Big Blue has the in-tank pumps I think from what I remember on Darth, removing a tab on the pump/sender assembly will let it fit the 1987-1993 tanks. Dead giveaway is the permanent "unleaded insert" Darth had a place for one which was a plastic one in 1986 but they were never installed as these trucks did not have to have unleaded only. My fillers use the same screw in cap with no restrictor since I took them of a 1996 Powerstroke dually. I can get a picture of one tomorrow for you, it is dark and damn cold out right now.
Bill - I've copied an 80 - 86 illustration and an 87+ illustration and will put them below. But, I'm also going to put them on my Fuel Filler Pipes page, maybe tomorrow during the game. And, I hope to show what needs to change to make the conversion. But, I'm sure you are right that the inner hose was the vent in the early ones and the later ones had the vent outside. Anyway, something is seriously wrong with this one and I'll have to figure out what.
Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
Wow Gary!
I'm glad you found that before the flexing destroyed the potmetal casting.
Pedal supports are not easy to come by.
Compare the filler neck angle with one of your other trucks.
The bricknose and later trucks had a different pitch inside the filler door and the neck changed to accommodate.
Maybe someone mistakenly thought 'opening this thing up has got to make it flow better'
Then the hose gets pinched and turbulence between the fuel flowing down and the vapor escaping trips the nozzle every time.
Jim - I'm feeling good about having caught that. It fixed a number of problems, like soft brakes, the popping sound, and even the clutch linkage. In fact, I'll bet the 1/32" firewall flex is less now as the pedal support provides some stiffness to it.
On the fuel filler, things are really, REALLY SLOW when filling the tank. So I have to figure out what the problem is and fix it.
Also, do you remember the resistance range for the later senders? I'm still struggling to understand how the resistance on the sender can be 63 ohms and the gauge show full.
If the inner fuel tube was left off of the later filler neck you would have a problem. I do not envy you fooling with it, I did my front tank this past summer due to a rather inaccurate sender so I dropped it and rebent the arm so empty is empty and full is full. Mine a bad ground will peg the gauge beyond full. The early filler issue was the fuel running over the end of the vent would get pushed up it. Up through 79 Ford had a great vent system, a 5/8" hose from the tank to just below the cap on the neck. It must have been cheaper to make it concentric. One thing to look at, see if the evaporative system was eliminated by capping things off. If it was, get some later tank breather valves, the 1990 system on Darth, has (A) 3/8" (I think) vent hoses and (B) they go both to the EVAP canisters and an atmospheric vent on both tanks. The original system was 3/16" lines and filling the dually tanks was a damn near impossible job. The later system is better, but still a pain, I learned early to try to park with the fillers on the high side when fueling.
Just catching up. The Motor mounts are new. Should be a receipt in all that stuff I gave ya. If not let me know and I'll point you to where I got them. The mechanic that put them in (the same one who did the engine so take that as a grain of salt) told me he had to "Slightly" modify one of the mounts but it wouldn't effect anything...
Things going good. Love the story with this truck. I'm living vicariously thru you and ya know what? Its more fun that if I was doing it....Ha! Keep going
I -Think- I might have had the slave Clutch bushing in with the parts. On those lists I gave you if I had small associated parts that went with something I just attached them to the major part an labeled it but only put the major part on your list. Look around that box that had clutch stuff in it and you might find one.... having said that... to me all bushing looked the same.
Hey Gary, Hey if that master cylinder is leaking this is the second time. It was supposed to have been fixed.
I got that new slave just cause I wanted to have as new parts all over as I could. I could afford new parts while I'm working but not so much in 3 years when I retired... that was he plan anyway. Don't know what they found but supposedly it was fixed and I never had to put any more in after that. BUT having said that I only drove it maybe 350-400 miles after the fix....
Jebus... See what I mean about mechanics around here Gary. No one was giving that truck love... and the sad part was I told each one of them who worked on it I would pay whatever they asked for a real professional and competent job... they took the money but never delivered.
........
Also, along the way we found another problem. When I was watching the clutch master and asked my wife to push the clutch pedal down I saw the brake master move. But, she assured me that she was pushing only the clutch pedal. And, when she hit the brake pedal the brake master really moved. So, I slid under the dash and found this:
Tightening those isn't easy, but it isn't that hard. So, why would someone leave them that loose? Even the bottom ones weren't tight. But, they are now all TIGHT and the brakes are much more firm. Plus, the click or clunk that was up under the dash when using the clutch has gone. [/QUOTE]
The front tank has had the filler hose replaced. There is a new filler hose for the rear tank also but its not installed. That slow fill has been with the truck since day 1. I figured the breather was either kinked or blocked and had the Filler neck replaced with the tank. When the old filler hose was pulled it did have a bad kink in it. The original filler neck had an external breather hose that ran outside and parallel to the large fill hose. They didn't make that one anymore but the guy at "Filler Neck Supply Company" assured me that that one would work.... maybe not.... It appeared to me that the breather hose could,in some conditions stick too far down in the tank and get covered with fuel when the tank was nearing full. Does it fill up normally than get slow as it fills. If so that might be it. I thought bout cutting it shorter but didn't want to mess with something I'm not that familiar with.
V
Originally Posted by Gary Lewis
Amen, brother! That's exactly the combination I had to use, and the rotation was very small. And that's exactly why I'm pretty sure they didn't get tightened originally - meaning whenever the master/booster was replaced. But, they are now.
Ok, two other things. First, the fuel gauge reads Full or Fuller. IOW, it reads from the Full mark or higher. I assumed that the wire is grounded somewhere, but today I pulled the 4-pin connector off the tank and the gauge (nor the pump oddly enough ) worked. So I put a meter on the sending unit and got 63 ohms. If I remember correctly the sending units for these should be 12 ohms at full scale to 72 ohms at empty. So, the gauge should be reading about 1/4 tank. Right? Gotta go study that a bit.
Edit: The tank probably has 16 of its possible 19 gallons so the gauge should be setting on about 3/4's. And, if my math is right, that should be around 27 ohms, assuming the senders are linear.
Also, since I got the truck the front tank's filler looked like this, with no cap:
Without looking at it I've tried to put a cap on it, but none of mine worked. Then I found a threaded cap that Vernon sent, brand new in a box, and installed it. So, obviously, the filler neck has been changed out, which may explain why it is almost impossible to fill the tank w/o tripping the station's pump off. Is this a later model neck? If so, did maybe they put the earlier central hose in? Thoughts, please.
Naw, I don't think someone forgot to torque them... I was finding all kinds of small stuff that they were supposed to fix for me that screamed "lazy work"!
I'm curious what Gary will find when he gets to the engine motor mounts..Considering that one of the "Lazy work" ones though it important enough to "mention" to me that he had to modify one of the mounts a little bit to get it to work.
Let this be a lesson. Never start a major overhaul if your not a good mechanic.
Originally Posted by JayFinAZ
Maybe someone forgot to torque them and then vibration loosened them. Just guessing
Wow! Watch two episodes of Person Of Interest and get 8 responses!
Jim - See if you agree with my math, assuming this is a bricknose sender:
Range = 157 ohms @ full - 16 ohms @ empty = 141 ohms
63 ohms, my reading today, minus 16 ohms = 47 ohms
47 ohms divided by 141 ohms = 33%
So, the sender says the tank is 33% full
I could buy it if it was saying 66% full as I think it is 75% full, and maybe the sender isn't linear. But, I'm having a hard time buying 33% full. Besides, if it were a bricknose sender it would read almost full at empty (16 ohms instead of 10), but at full it would be at 157 ohms, which wouldn't even register on the gauge. In other words, I don't know what is going on with the sender.
Bill - Come to think of it, I didn't even see an evap system connection on the tank today. In fact, all I saw were the supply and return fittings, both of which were connected. It isn't easy to see up there as there's a skid plate right below the tank - a non-stock skid plate I might add. One side is bolted on but the other side looked welded on at first blush. I'll have to figure out how to get it off so I can really access the tank.
Vernon - Welcome back, Kotter! Are we having fun yet?
Actually, I like solving problems, so this really is fun. But, I can easily see how you got put off. Having them do work like I'm seeing has to have been really, REALLY FRUSTRATING!
As for the bushing, yes there is one but it is plastic. And I have several of the oil-impregnated sintered bronze bushings, called Oiltite, that I've used on several linkages. They wear much better than plastic (Delrin as Jim pointed out, and as an ex-DuPonter I should acknowledge that), so that's what I used. But, I don't know that there's a leak in the system. Yes, it was low on fluid, but I can't see any signs of there having been a leak. So, now that I have the linkage working well I'll watch it and see if something needs to be replaced.
But, on the fuel system, it looks like you were planning to eliminate the in-tank electric pumps and go completely mechanical. Right? I see an Edelbrock pump box, which I assume is mechanical. But, I see a Carter pump box, which is surely electric. So, what was the plan?
Carter made mechanical fuel pumps, my 430 ex-NASCAR engine had one to go with that huge AFB it had on it (engine came with an Algon mechanical injection as it was last used in the modified, now gone, division).
Gary, if it has A/C it probably should keep the in-tank pumps, they were to cure the vapor locking issue the mechanical pumps had in hot weather.
Yes, they did. But this one is the P74096, which is an electric pump that Amazon says fits the rear of the truck. Here's the shot from Amazon - looks in-tank to me. And, I agree it needs to keep the in-tank pumps for cooling.
Sure looks like the right one, I think I still have the old rear one from Darth and maybe a front one too. If I do, they will still be on the hangers with the senders. I went through hell finding one when I first got him in 1994, only place I could find one was Pep Boys in a Stewart-Warner one. Everyone else tried to sell me an EFI pump or tell me it must have been converted. On the front of the intake, in front of the carburetor, there should be a piece that looks like an in-line filter with a branch on it. It is a vapor separator and is part of the "hot fuel handling package". It returns vapor bubbles to whichever tank is active.
[/QUOTE]
) worked. So I put a meter on the sending unit and got 63 ohms. If I remember correctly the sending units for these should be 12 ohms at full scale to 72 ohms at empty. So, the gauge should be reading about 1/4 tank. Right? Gotta go study that a bit.
