If you crank it without oil (issues with that aside), it'll deplete the HPO reservoir and then you'll definitely be dealing with air on the oil side in addition to maybe air on the fuel side.

The truck should run fine with LOW oil. So maybe only add 10 quarts back in, enough to register on the stick. Then you can see if it grows from there. Drain out what you have and put 10 quarts back in maybe. It's not like fuel dilution is going to kill the bearings if the engine won't start. If the oil registers on the dipstick it fully covers the oil sump.

 

Definitely wouldn't crank it. Just turn the KO to start the fuel pump. I've done that before to diagnose a leaky injector.

Dang, just realized the oil filter is different. Assumed it was the same filter just turned upside down. Looked on the FordParts site - they want $29 for the truck filter and $120 for the Eseries filter?????

 

My mistake. Ford filters are the same, PO did change to aftermarket. Now I gotta buy a different oil filter cap. #$%@%

 

Gotcha That makes more sense, I was thinking WTF about cranking the engine with no oil, figured I had to be missing something.

 

My local parts stores will take the oil and only the oil. They also won't take it if it's in coolant, water, or trans fluid jugs. I painted a couple of metal 5gal cans black and stenciled USED OIL ONLY on them and that made everyone happy. The cans originally had Thompsons water seal in them and I did drain them out completely before using them for this.

All the other fluids have to be kept seperate also and my local "city shop" will take them. That's the place where they work on the trash trucks, ambulances, police cars etc. they aren't very picky there and they have seperate tanks for used fluids. I not sure every town has a place like that but almost all have a place where they work on the school busses, that might be worth investigating. I'd stop by in person and talk to one of the greasy guys in the shop. If you call the office you'll likely get the official answer and it may not be what you want to hear.

I personally (and I'm sure some of the other guys too) would love to have the right answer for you on your current issue but what I THINK I know about the F series often doesn't apply to the E series. For example, I believe the oil filter housing is different and I don't know how that affected the fuel filter housing, how the lines are routed etc. In normal operation any air in the supply line from the tank should get removed and returned to the tank through the return line, so if that isn't happening it has two problems, air is getting in AND it's not being removed, or that could all be working ok and instead it's getting air somewhere after the filter housing, that's just one problem so that seems more likely. To complicate matters, we don't really know air in the fuel is the problem at all.

I like the idea of draining the oil and running the fuel pump with the drain plug out, if it does flow fuel from the crankcase you've found the issue, if it doesn't you know another thing that isn't a problem and progress was made either way.

I've seen you make several multiple posts with no responses and wished I had a good answer for ya, just know some us are following along and hopefully that's a little moral support if nothing else. By the time all this is over you'll be a E series guru and your karma points will only go up.

 

Please know that I never feel bad if I don't get answers here. I just like posting so all the lurkers learn something from me stumbling around. Just cause it doesn't turn out to be my solution, it might be someone else's.

Did drain the oil and no fuel came out the crankcase, so that's good. Then I couldn't find an OEM cap at 5 different auto parts stores, and didn't want to pay dealership prices, so I ordered a Dorman and I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs hoping it makes the 6pm delivery to O'Reilley's. If not, it'll be in the morning. Almost put the old Wix back on just to keep cranking, but decided no.


The fuel regulator housing has 4 lines going in/out, so I assume one is a return. So, are you saying that any air in the bowl should be forced out the return line with KO? I need to replace the broken fuel cap as well, but don't want to mess with that right now. If I'm understanding correctly that air would be forced out, I don't know why I need to open that back up to bleed. Was going to crack an output line to bleed, but don't have anyone to turn the key on/off and figure I'd be spewing fuel everywhere or letting air suck back in before I could turn it off again.

Still...

Not sure what we did last night, but now I didn't even get a sputter out of it today when cranking. Data still looks good, FICM still good. When it ran for a few seconds last night, I really thought we were on the way, now I seem just as far away as ever. So, I wonder if it is something with the fuel and air. That's all we did to it last night except charge the batteries good, and it kinda started.

Random question: this new charger say 85 Engine Start Amps, 30 Boost Amps, and 6/2 Charge/Maintain Amps. You can select the Boost mode, which is what we used last night and I kept it on there overnight. But reading the manual today, is says not to use that mode to charge long-term. It's just a pre-start boost mode.

I'm thinking they're just worried about their charger running that hot for so long and not about damaging my truck/batteries. It cranked nice this morning, very even and strong. But I put it on regular charge mode since then while I wait on the oil cap.

 

I agree it's probably ok but the people who make the charger are being real about the duty cycle so you don't overheat it. Overnight at 30a is a hard long charge, heat at the batteries may become an issue as they near full charge, reason being any on/off cycling of the charger was probably caused by its internal over heat protection and not regulated by voltage/amps. The lower settings on most modern chargers are regulated and monitor the charge rate, pushing harder (well, longer cycles) when the battery is low and "tickling" it up to full charge. That 30a setting likely doesn't include any regulation of the charge rate.

It might be wise (for the batteries, charger, and your shop) to use the 30a setting while you're around the truck then drop back to the Lower rate when you turn out the lights for the night.

 

Sounds good. And that's what I'm doing tonight. I had my 8A on one battery last night and the 30A on the other. When I woke up this morning, the 30A charger said its battery was 92% charged. Went back an hour later and it had powered down to maintenance mode. Switched it to the other battery and it was fully charged within another hour.

Dang filter cap didn't come in tonight. Gotta wait for the 9am truck. Still twiddling.

 

How about this longshot: could I have somehow switched wires on the injector harness and got two reversed? Would that make it not start? I know I was uncomfortable with how tight the wire was to #8 when I put it back together. How can I confirm the wiring is correct? Is there any SG data that would tell me? I still have no codes thrown.

 

Well, from reading forum posts this morning, it seems that it's nearly impossible to get wires crossed.

 

Update: may be getting close - one step backwards, two steps forward.

Got the new oil filter cap. Looked good, threads seem to match, depth of threads matched, oring location matched, a hair shorter than the original, but so was the Motorcraft cartridge. Go to put it on and it's a beach. Hard to even push down far enough for the threads to engage. When I finally get it, hard to screw. Put a ratchet on it and crank it down but it stops short of the lip, and dang hard to get off. Have to use a pipe wrench, which of course, bungs up the bolt head. So I take the cartridge out to see if that's the problem. Same thing. But now it wont come off at all. Pipe wrench obliterates the bolt head. End up destroying my new cap to get it off. Old cap goes right back on, easy as can be. But, it doesn't have the fitting that the MC cartridge snaps into. Put it together anyway. Filled with oil

Question: how long can it run like that?

Started cranking, one long crank, then the next crank it started and ran about 10 seconds. Died by itself.

I've cranked it a few more times and it tries real hard to start, but never kicks over again. Currently letting everything cool off a few minutes and will try again.

Haven't done anything else to it, so I'm thinking it really is just an air in the system problem.

Stay tuned.

 

When you're installing your upper fuel filter, are you putting the filter into the cap and then screwing it on the housing, or are you putting the filter down into the housing and then screwing on the filter?

I ask this because the symptoms you describe sound like what I experienced when I replaced the fuel filters on my truck back when I first got it. When I installed the upper fuel filter, I snapped it into the fuel cap first and then screwed it onto the housing. Apparently this doesn't let the filter seat properly, and somehow didn't let the fuel flow like it should, the truck sputtered and and died I couldn't get it to start after the fuel ran out from the bowl. I then reinstalled the filter by pushing it down into the fuel housing first, and then screwed on the cap, which eventually engaged with the filter. After that, truck started right up and ran fine.

Just a thought......

 

I'm putting it into the cap first. Never heard of it mattering. But certainly worth a try. Except, dang, I need to replace that cap because I broke the nut off the top last time I tried to remove it. If it's anything like the oil filter cap, I'll have to break it apart to get it off. They want $50 for the dang things.

But gotta be done and worth a try. The symptoms are exactly what you describe. Just finished cranking it prolly 6 times. As long as I keep the start engaged, it sputters and sounds like it's about to start. Let off the key and it stops.

I'm going to take the whole assembly off and see if something got inside and is keeping the filter from going all the way down.

 

Also, some non motorcraft filters require a plastic clip thingy that gets installed on the top of the spring post in the filter housing, if you've ever used a non motorcraft filter, just make sure it doesn't have one of those on there, I don't think the OEM filter will go on right if there is.


EDIT: Nevermind about the clip thingy, I was thinking of the oil filter....sorry about that.

 

Looks clean inside. The filter wasn't going up and down smoothly, but I sprayed inside and worked it a bit and seems to be better. I had to cut the top off, and the filter looked like it was pressed down all the way. On my way to buy a new one.