OK...youse guys talked me into buying the pan and filter from Ed.....and I wasn't even part of this conversation!!

 

To Scott: Right, I only use Ford filters for the oil and fuel, won't use anything else. However, I bought these pieces (the 6.4/'08 pan and the filter in question from Mr. Jack's post #17) from FICM Repair. I know that Ed is a respected member of the community here and took it at face value that it would be an upgraded filter for the 6.4/'08 pan.

I do want to say sorry to the OP for derailing the thread.

 

Make sure that the old o-ring comes out when the new filter goes in. You'll probably have to reach in and fish it out.

 

I don't ever think there's a derailing of a thread.

I got the pan from White Bear and the filter from DieselFilters as that is where I always get my filters and trans fluid from. I just load up with a package for a group of filters and other items for family vehicles. These trans parts have been sitting on the garage shelf now for 9 months just like other parts but I'll get around to it someday. I'm fine with the Motorcraft filters as using Mark is an example, I'm sure the engineers selected the best filtering and non-starvation when the filter is loaded up at the service interval.

 

Hey guys - I just stumbled across this thread. There is lots going on here. Lots. A few things:

1. It's like pulling teeth to get many companies to publish or indicate their micron value and flow rating specifications for their filters. Certainly some do, but most don't.
2. The reportedly 100 mesh screen filter that comes in the 5R110 mated to the 6.0 is, well, less than awesome. Presuming that the '100 mesh' rating is correct, a rough conversion puts that filtration at 149 microns - far from impressive.
3. The pleated filter that came with the 6.4 implementation of the Powerstroke visibly provides far better filtration than the 100 mesh screen, but does require a deeper pan for clearance. I'd guesstimate in the sub-30 micron area. It's just a guesstimate though.
4. Our aftermarket provider of the aftermarket 6.4 filter who for separate reasons I have grown to trust and respect has repeatedly stated - on what basis I'll freely admit to you I don't know - that his aftermarket filter provides even finer filtration than the OEM implementation of the 6.4 filter.
5. EITHER the OEM filter or the aftermarket filter is certainly far better than the screen found in the 6.0 implementation.
6. For the few extra bucks that he gets (and therefore we charge - sorry) for the aftermarket filter combined with my built-up level of trust in him as both a person and a provider and short of doing my own lab testing, I would personally land on using the aftermarket filter over the OEM. In either case, though, you are absolutely far better off than the screen.
7. The 6.4 'type' filter requires a deeper pan. If you don't tow uber heavy, and don't have a penchant for sled pulls or power stands, go with the OEM 6.4 pan. We offer it on our site for less than I believe anywhere (even White Bear!) at $58.32. OEM Transmission Pan 8C3Z-7A194-B.
7a. If you DO tow uber heavy, sled pull, street race, do power stands, or for that matter even have folks other than you (contractors, workers, etc, really, but maybe also your teenage son - hah!) consider spending the extra cash and benefitting from the extra torsional rigidity that a materially more stout aluminum pan provides. It may well avoid a cracked transmission case, which will mean that you BOTH need a new transmission AND won't have a core that will be accepted - a day ruiner for sure. The extra cooling provided through the fins on these pans combined with the material itself is certainly a bonus, too, as it should yield generally lower trans fluid temps (always a good thing). 5R110 6.4 HD Pan
8. We are not fans of getting rid of the toilet paper filter behind the front bumper. It's already plumbed and CLEARLY provides finer filtration than any pleated COULD. We are, however, fans of doing the deeper transmission pan combined with one of the pleated filter options as step one. As step two, run this way for perhaps 1000 miles or so to catch all of the smaller particles that this filter provides. As step three, change out the toilet paper filter (and o-ring!) that is installed behind the front bumper to prevent it from immediately clogging up from mid-sized particles that could have been caught with the pleated filter.

Hope this helps! This write-up has become thorough enough that methinks I should add it to our transmission page. Hah!

 

Thanks Ed. I guess as stated earlier, why not just keep that front filter in place when changing out the 08 conversion.
Surely can't hurt.

 

From Money-Pits original thread "Removed stock 6.0 transmission pan/installed 2008 6.4 trans pan & FT-180 filter" these were the decision points points for me:

Second point in the tread.



With respect to Randy, those may or may not be correct microns for the filters. Getting data like that from Ford is next to impossible so it may or may not be correct. I looked and couldn't find it. But I would agree on his viewpoint.

I also listened to Mark's take. The way I looked at this was if you operate the vehicle so the trans fluid is typically getting into the temp range then the roll filter will work acceptably, but you need to maintain the fluid changes per schedule. If your vehicle operation is such that you don't get the thermostat open that often, not too much filtering is going on and your relying on the fluid changes to remove debris. Either case, fluid cost or environmental considerations over say 100k miles may also sway your decision on going to the newer pan and filter. But the costs are about equal if your going to have the vehicle for 100k miles. 200k miles and the new pan is cost effective.

I know for some bypass filtering vs direct is frowned upon, by GM/Detroit 2 Stroke diesel like in my dozer use bypass filtering and last a long time.

To me the bigger point is your transmission operation temperature; are you filtering debris or staying cool and keeping the debris in the fluid. I know for me I notice a dramatic change in the coloration of the roll filter, my towing period vs light duty operation. I'd rather not have debris within the areas of a bearing or spool surface.

 

I'm glad Ed stepped in and cleared that up with regards to the aftermarket filter! Thanks Ed!

 

Always happy to help out!

 

Jack,
Just when you thought the road ahead was straight, here comes another curve.
To clarify, are you saying that a colder temp doesn't filter out media as well in the TP filter? Knowing the thermostat and my consistent tranny temps, how could there be a significant way measure effectiveness?
I'd think hotter fluids wouldn't allow the debris to be carried on but sink with lower viscosity?
I'm still feeling that more filtering isn't a bad thing, not less.
Go figure.

 

My reasoning is from what Mark said:

The external 6.0L trans filters 10% of the flow through the radiator and oil to air external cooler. And that flow to the coolers is reduced by 90% when the transmission is below 165F by the transmissions integral thermostat. So if your in an operating mode when your transmission never exceeds 165F very little fluid goes through the external filter, period. All the debris remains within the fluid and pan.

Now it will get filtered when the trans goes up in temp to over 165F but it all depends on your driving condition and ambient temps. During winter, again based on your driving conditions, that could take months as it has for me.

It's not the death spiral it sounds like it is, as we don't see a high failure rate with these transmissions. Mark and his colleagues did a good job developing the system. But they found a better way.

IMO, it's your transmission operating temperature that you normally see that should first base your decision on an upgraded internal, always filtering pan and filter change, or stay the course. Then the consideration of other things.

 

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I'm pulling a 13K lb boat across country. Do I need the OEM Transmission Pan 8C3Z-7A194-B or5R110 6.4 HD Pan? I'll use the 5R110 Transmission Filter.

Thanks again.

 

Cold, Hot or anything in between; if your engine is running, you are filtering 100% of the fluid in the transmission when running the updated internal filter. Running the external filter along with the internal updated one: A) won't hurt anything, as it is a bypass style so if it clogs it is fully bypassed; B) it is a second filter, so even if it does nothing or something as r2millers asks: what can it hurt? And that is nothing, but it isn't necessary either.

And Jack: doing a payout on a $90 update...?

The question that isn't answered for me is why a different internal filter than the factory one -- Ford did all the testing to determine the right media, what did the next guys do testing-wise? I'm hearing a vacuum of information...

No offense intended Ed, but hearsay is, kinda' worth squat -- you are a valuable resource here and offer both options -- it'd just be nice to know what I'd get for the extra dollars...

 

Check Ed's post above that is the 6.4 pan and he has a choice of filters to run in it. It will take 9 Qts of Mercon SP/LV oil to fill the new pan, it is a little larger than the original that came on your truck...

 

When you're only income is based on how well you're doing in this stock market, yeah, pennies.