Rusty
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
if the 4180 is lean the test may need some modification or extension. For the Holley's I could try running the same primary jets between the two carbs, like maybe the 66's in the 4160, as well as the stock jetting. (Just tried to take the primary bowl off the 4180 to check jetting, to no avail. Any tips?)
Thinking the comparison would be between an "as delivered" truck and the same with an aftermarket vacuum secondary carb.
The new Holley kits have the blue 'stickless' gaskets.
Not knowing when that 4180 was last opened up it may take a sharp rap with a screwdriver handle to break it loose if it has cork.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
And, the '85 that I mentioned in the WHYDTYT thread may well be here - the one the guy says he's put $45K into but will sell for $25k. He came back yesterday and said he might well come.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I would just go with the stock jetting in the 4180.
Thinking the comparison would be between an "as delivered" truck and the same with an aftermarket vacuum secondary carb.
The new Holley kits have the blue 'stickless' gaskets.
Not knowing when that 4180 was last opened up it may take a sharp rap with a screwdriver handle to break it loose if it has cork.
Thinking the comparison would be between an "as delivered" truck and the same with an aftermarket vacuum secondary carb.
The new Holley kits have the blue 'stickless' gaskets.
Not knowing when that 4180 was last opened up it may take a sharp rap with a screwdriver handle to break it loose if it has cork.
Concerning the "as delivered" test, according to the charts I've seen I would have to put 68's in the 4160 instead of the 66's that are in it. So, I may pass on that as it runs great with these jets.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
No, no Gary,
I meant the 4180 set up as the truck was when delivered to the dealer.
The 4160 would be expected to be tuned. And if that means leaner mains or a different spring, so be it!
I meant the 4180 set up as the truck was when delivered to the dealer.
The 4160 would be expected to be tuned. And if that means leaner mains or a different spring, so be it!
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Got it - delivered to the dealer. Makes sense, and I assume this 4180 is stock, although if/when I get it apart we can verify that. And, I suspect the 1406 is box stock as well, but its one of those "expected to be tuned" universal carbs like the 1460. Hmmm, same digits just different order. Interesting.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
I was lost trying to figure out the 4160/4180 part of the convo, till I read back and saw where Gary mentioned the addition of a 3rd carb into the equation. I guess I either missed it the first time thru, or simply failed to retain that info...... Intercrainial flatulence (brain fart) would be a good suspect.
The 4160/4180/1406 side by side test would be very interesting. It could reveal quite a few things.
The 4160/4180/1406 side by side test would be very interesting. It could reveal quite a few things.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Yes, I added that one (the 4180) in this morning because someone was asking choke questions on those carbs so I grabbed it to look. Realize it would be an easy swap for the 4160, and the rest is history - brief, but history.
New User
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
thats true. If if find whatever parts i need from someone online ill most likely have to have it shipped
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
You can email me on janeyandgary@gmail.com so we don't clutter this thread up too much. Having said that, I've done a bunch of cluttering so don't worry about it.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Yeah, a test of say 30-60 MPH in a single gear (4th?) would be a pretty good way to compare the acceleration difference (if any) between the 2 carbs.
Personally, I'd accept a slightly slower acceleration time, if there was enough of a MPG gain to offset it.
I have my suspicions as to which carb style will give the better MPG, and the better acceleration. I even suspect it will be the same carb.....
Granted, having both carbs tuned well is key to getting the most accurate results.
Personally, I'd accept a slightly slower acceleration time, if there was enough of a MPG gain to offset it.
I have my suspicions as to which carb style will give the better MPG, and the better acceleration. I even suspect it will be the same carb.....
Granted, having both carbs tuned well is key to getting the most accurate results.
Somehow I can't see those metering rods losing to a power valve - even one with two steps and good boosters. But, we shall see.It is Dynolicious. Sounds good and has a 4+ out of 5 star rating. May just have to do that when the time comes.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
I know a lot of the local autocrossers use the dynolicious app, as it can record accel/decel and cornering g-forces. With the right mount, the phone can also record video at the same time......
There's others, but that one seems to have a good rating among folks I actually know......
There's others, but that one seems to have a good rating among folks I actually know......
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I know a lot of the local autocrossers use the dynolicious app, as it can record accel/decel and cornering g-forces. With the right mount, the phone can also record video at the same time......
There's others, but that one seems to have a good rating among folks I actually know......
There's others, but that one seems to have a good rating among folks I actually know......
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Gary, what you and a number of others forget here is that the metering rods are actually called "step up rods" by Carter and work just like a Holley power valve, there is a vacuum point at which the raise, and by doing so make the jet "larger". Some are 2 stage like some Holley power valves. True "metering" rods are found in SUs and a lot of motorcycle carbs. Ford VV carbs and Zenith Stromberg CD carbs also.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Gary, what you and a number of others forget here is that the metering rods are actually called "step up rods" by Carter and work just like a Holley power valve, there is a vacuum point at which the raise, and by doing so make the jet "larger". Some are 2 stage like some Holley power valves. True "metering" rods are found in SUs and a lot of motorcycle carbs. Ford VV carbs and Zenith Stromberg CD carbs also.
IIRC, Rochester had 2-stage rods, but did Carter?