hell Ray, i bet none of the "operators" today could even figure out how to start one of those beasts.

especially if it had a pony motor.

 

Kind of OT for the OT Nolan. And it's dirty...

 

i can run machines with a pony motor... we even had a grader with a r model mack engine and trans in it and u had to shift it like a truck... i learned to drive truck on a b model with 2 stick at the age of 12 i take offense when people tell me i cant drive or run something
i dont call my self an operator because "an operator can run anything that they get on, not just move dirt with it", although my grandfather who started the business i work for refers to me as an operator

 

All those mentioned had pony motors,I didn't mention the IH machines TD-9 through TD-24 that the diesel engine started on gas a switched to diesel once warmed up

 

[Rant mode=on/]
Sheldon I'm sure you meant it differently than it reads out but the way I see things you're saying I can't do a damn thing. I'd really beg to differ.

Just because I don't enjoy the manual labor aspect of things doesn't mean I don't do it. But if I'm digging trench of any decent size I'll get the excavator. Not the digging shovel.

I'll also drive probably 3,000 feet or more of silt fence in a day. I don't remember exactly how many rolls it was but I got the entire thing done before 3:00

Perfect example of where the logic of yay manual labor fails. I could've dug out for all that silt fence but instead the guy who was running the site just took the 700J that was there and dug the corner bit in and opened up a trench for it then repeated to backfill it. Not a snowball's chance in hell could I have dug 3,000 feet of silt fence by hand in a day in that ground.

Also if you think I can't do manual labor you're wrong. I worked on a dairy farm from when I was 12 til I was 15. Rode my bike to and from work (5 miles round trip) and stacked hay once I was there. When I was doing that my back hurt constantly. I realized I didn't want to feel like that for the rest of my life so when I was offered a position that paid far better and wasn't as labor intensive I took it.

The guy I worked for on the dairy farm was 70+ and could outwork anyone he had working for him and I guarantee every single person who will read this post. That includes you, Sheldon. The thing is, however, that he's slowed down now because he's had to replace both knees, a hip, and has bad shoulders. And yes he could still outwork every single person to read this post. The older guys are tough in a way I'll never be no matter how hard I try. Although the tough way isn't necessarily the smart way. I can think of 10 things they could do to improve efficiency right off the top of my head that are "the tough way" or whatever you guys are calling it that could be sped up drastically by use of power other than manpower.

Also to address another point I know there's not a machine for every job. I'm not retarded. Every day I shovel out the tracks on whatever piece of equipment I'm using so that we won't get mud freezing up in the tracks in winter and to make it easier to shovel them out for transport in summer. I also shovel out around the screen plant and tub grinder after every day I run them.

My first piece of "equipment" when I was little was a digging shovel with the top half of the handle cut off so it was short enough for me to use. I'm no stranger to manual labor. I just don't see how it's "satisfying" to do a job manually when a guy with a machine can do it 10x faster.

I'm not even talking about the ease of doing a job. I'm all about speed and quality of a job. In my opinion the faster you can get the job done the happier your client will be. I've never been hired because the client wanted to see my face. I've been hired because the client wanted the job done and if you can do the job faster without sacrificing quality then the client will be happier.

This post is mainly directed at Sheldon and I don't want to continue to hijack the OT so I'd be happy to continue this discussion in another arena.

One last point to make:
If manual labor is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why have I never seen a large company doing commercial sitework with 1,000 guys using shovels and wheelbarrows? EFFICIENCY. It makes sense.

[/Rant mode=off]

 

[/reply mode engaged]
Until you see those words come out in a post, or hear them out of my mouth, dont assume thats what I mean. Thats what the "stereotypical" woman does.

Im sure lots of kids today think they can work, but I see so many kids do exactly what you do, look for a machine first to do any job. When you see a guy go fire up say a skid steer, let it warm up, drive it across the yard to do one little job that would have taken the same amount of time with a shovel, thats called lazy *** working, over hard working.

All of your examples so far are huge jobs, when did I ever mention in any of my posts that hard work had to be 1000 guys digging a ditch? Seems like your struggling to twist my words around, just so you can try and avoid some key points Ive addressed!
Pete your examples of comparing work like digging a dugout (or whatever) with a machine to hand are silly.




Some people arent cut out to do physical work by any means, but this paragraph is another perfect example of this next generation. You stacked hay ONCE, and decided it was too much for you, and you couldnt do it anymore? Wheres the drive to succeed? Wheres the drive to work hard? I hear you loud and clear about wanting more pay (who doesnt) but this generation always tries to take the easy route out! (in some cases its smart, some lazy)

Id love to meet him, Im related to guys like that. ALthough at 70 years old, I doubt he could outwork me anymore, but I still get what you mean, That generation of guys were unstoppable, till old age hit. I mean the guy is 70, he should have bad knees and shoulders due to his age! If he was an operator, i bet you could add overweight, and a screwed back ontop of it too!

Agreed, being a "tough guy" is different then being a hard worker though, two very very different things.
Also, im pretty sure at 70 years old, the guy would have a certain system that works as efficient as possible in his operations. Some times its not always realistic (either money wise, time wise, space wise, etc.) to stick a "machine" in place of a man.
Also working hard doesnt mean you have to be stupid about things either. Im not sure why you seem to think its either work smart, OR work hard.

Who said it was?



Quality is almost always more important then speed, but in the excavation business, I know myself how some clients are, they just want it done fast, cover it up, as long as it works they are happy.
Thats one of the fewer exceptions though.
If you did a fast but crappy job at most other places, you bet you would be out the door! Say you mowed a bunch of lawns fast, but missed a bunch of spots, Im sure we all know the customer would be more uupset, then if it took you less time, but mowed perfect.

Mistakes are to be made when someone works too fast. Everyone knows that though, and in my previous post, I even mentioned another little mantra "first you get good, then you get fast" Again, I never said once that working fast wasnt important either!

Greatest thing since sliced bread, I dunno about that, but it has produced things like stone henge, the great pyramids, etc.

Again, working hard isnt always necessarily manual labor. A guy sure learns to work hard from doing manual labor though!

[/reply mode disengaged]

 

No. I said I stacked hay once I got there. Not stacked hay once and quit. I held that job for 3 years.

But like I said. We can continue this discussion elsewhere if you'd like because I don't want to continue it in a public forum. That is not the place. I'm sure you'll end up winning the argument. Always do but there's some stuff I'm saying you're not quite grasping as evidenced by your last statement of saying I put in 1 day at the farm then quit.

 

This is a perfect place to have a good discussion if ya ask me! If you dont wanna continue it thats fine though, I can respect that.

My bad too, I musta read that wrong, my mistake!
Im surprised you didnt get bulked up quite abit from stacking hay for 3 years though, Ive done that for years, and its quite frankly worked better then any gym Ive been too.

 

I'm more than willing to continue the conversation just didn't want to make everyone else read a ton of posts of us just going back and forth.

I'm just not a bulked up person. Especially since I lost a fair bit of weight. Probably 20lbs or so since I graduated jr high. I held that job for 3 years and rode my bicycle there every time they needed me. It obviously wasn't every day but it was every Saturday to give the guy that usually milks a day off and every time they'd make hay. It's a fairly small farm so we'd never do more than 3,000 bales a day so it wasn't really too much. My brother worked for the biggest hay operation around here and they'd do 5,000-7,000 on an average day.

I know I use this example WAY too much but one day at that dairy farm we were doing probably 8 wagons or so which would equate to about 1,000 bales give or take. They'd only ever put 120-150 bales on a wagon depending on which wagon it was. It was 112 degrees in the shade down on the outside of the milk room. We had 5 guys working that day including myself. Two older guys, Sly and Jimmy, a guy in his 20s, Mike, the owner, Ed, and myself. Mike, Ed, and I were up in the mow of a tin roof barn stacking. Jimmy and Sly were on the wagon loading the hay elevator. Ed was at the top of the elevator grabbing the bales throwing them to Mike and I who were stacking. We did that for a while then Ed went back out to go bale more hay so it was just Mike and I in the mow. I'd throw the bales to him then he'd stack and we'd switch off every wagon. Sly said he had a doctors appointment and left. That left Jimmy on the wagon by himself which isn't really overworking him. One person should be able to handle a wagon no issues. But the bales stopped coming so Mike and I were looking down trying to figure it out. Jimmy wasn't throwing bales on the elevator any more. I got on the ladder and started heading down. The way it was set up we had 2 ladders going up with a landing of hay bales in the middle. On the landing I was shivering. Keep in mind it was 112* on the ground. Got the rest of that wagon unloaded then Jack (Ed's brother who had been out tedding hay until this point) decided to call it for the day and come back and unload the rest next day.

Jack also told Mike and myself that we were two of the hardest working guys he's ever had. I generally don't like to expound on complements I've gotten from people but I also don't appreciate people telling me I'm lazy.

By the way 112 Fahrenheit is 44 Celsius. I believe you said you don't like over 26 or so Celsius. I'm not gonna say you're lazy because you dislike the heat so I'd appreciate it if you'd not call me lazy cause I don't like the cold. That is where this whole thing stems from.

And before you call me out on saying I wanted snow yes I want snow because I'm just about broke I need the money I can make by running the plow truck.

 

so should we call the generation before ours "entitled" because you put bathrooms in your houses, instead of out houses, or because you have well pumps in your basements and not hand pumps in your front yards

humans get smarter and more efficient every generation hence why we are not the same as monkeys

i worked my *** off for what i have not as hard as my grandfather or father did but that because of technology not because i am lazy

 

I didn't do a very good job at explaining myself, anyhoo I agree with what your saying.

 

I dont remember calling you personally lazy ever, let alone when it gets cold or warm.

Your right, i dont like working in the extreme heat. I do though, all the time. Same with extreme cold. Its crappy conditions like the extreme heat or cold when I personally really try to work the hardest. People notice that, and I push myself when others slow down. Now if I said yeah I avoid working when its really hot/cold/bright out, then thats a different story.

That was my first post, can you see where I called you lazy?

Im just curious though, could this be interpretated as someone who is lazy? (keep in mind I never said that at all, im just quoting what you yourself said)

I would recommend reading back a little bit.

I also cant help to think that some of this might be hitting home or something to you, cause your getting really defensive over a topic that was never really about you. It was a generalization about a generation. (which you also addressed)

 

My pet peeve with some of the younger generation is the way some of them whine about all their aches and pains. It gives me a pain in the you know where having to listen to them.

 

It does. I always feel like I'm being lazy if someone else is doing something and I'm not. Like when we had to shovel out from under the drum of the trommel screen. Only one person can fit in there to shovel at a time. I started out dad made me take a break and got in there and did some himself. I feel like a lazy bum sitting there watching him shovel even though he told me to get down so he could do some. So I guess it does hit hard when I think someone is calling me lazy.

We had to shovel out from under it cause a hydraulic motor broke and I hadn't noticed so material built up under the drum til it stopped spinning. I take full responsibility for that mess which is another reason I felt terrible about watching him clear it out.

 

I have worked with the younger generation in the power plant. Basically most of them were looking for a way out of work. The ones they stuck on my crew found out real fast that goof off time was earned, not given. They also found out that stabbing a fellow worker in the back (placing blame) in an attempt to gain favor with the boss (me) was a definate killer of respect (me and the rest of the crew).

The biggest laugh I got happened during the summer. My company bid a job that was a QC/QA controlled cleaning/blasting/coating of a 96 inch intake pipe. The day he arrived, I knew something just did not fit. He was bulked up like an ironworker and was an apprentice (gopher). I always went easy on the newbies the first week to give them time to get in the routine. Well the party was over. I needed three tons of sanblast material moved. Each pallet held 50 bags of material. As this newbie has to have an escort, I put him with a lady and a guy that I knew would get the job done. I got a radio call to come to the laydown yard. There I found that each had started on their pallet (there were three). The two others had finished, the newbie was passed out with about half done. Now remember, he looked like a bulked up bodybuilder. I call first aid. Seems that he was having severe muscle spams. Hell, the bags 40 pounds each. I could carry two of them with my little short butt. As the medics checked him, I pulled his personell file.

What I saw just blew my mind. This bulked up body builder had apparently been stripper for the "All Girl shows" and the bulk up was steriods. He had been fired from his previous job but it did not say why. It also showed that he passed a drug test. And this hip twisting hustler though that he could play with the big boys in construction.

Afterwords, I found out that they had taken him to the hospital. Apparently his over inflated ego (his body) had blew a few muscles. Well this information was too good to keep to myself. The entire crew knew about it. Upon his return to work, the crew literaly laughed his *** out of the plant.

This is only one of the great number of the younger generation that passed through (like diarreah) my crew. 95% never made it one month. They saw that $1K a week pay after taxes and thought piece of cake. They found out that their body could not handle that piece of cake. No one on my crew was under 25 except for my leadman, he was 18.