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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 01:54 PM
  #631  
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Update. Vettle starts from back of grid due to fuel irregularity.
Oops beat to the draw.
 

Last edited by Lazy K; Nov 3, 2012 at 01:56 PM. Reason: apology
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 01:56 PM
  #632  
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This does not hurt my head ...


sebastian Vettel will have to start the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix from the back of the grid after being disqualified from the qualifying session. The Formula 1 world championship leader contravened the rules when he parked his Red Bull on track at the end of qualifying, having been ordered to stop by his team due to a developing problem.
F1 regulations stipulate that drivers must return to the pits after qualifying to provide a one-litre fuel sample, but the stewards said Vettel's car had "insufficient fuel" for that.
<iframe allowtransparency="true" src="http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/tweet_button.1351848862.html#_=1351968707347&count =horizontal&id=twitter-widget-0&lang=en&original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosp ort.com%2Fnews%2Freport.php%2Fid%2F104001&related= autosportlive&size=m&text=%23F1%20Abu%20Dhabi%20GP %3A%20Sebastian%20Vettel%20to%20start%20last%20aft er%20penalty&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosport.com%2F news%2Freport.php%2Fid%2F104001&via=autosportnews" class="twitter-share-button twitter-count-horizontal" style="width: 111px; height: 20px;" title="Twitter Tweet Button" data-twttr-rendered="true" scrolling="no" frameborder="0">&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div class="snbuttons-btn p4"&gt;&lt;fb:like font="verdana" action="like" show_faces="false" width="400" layout="standard" send="false" fb-xfbml-state="rendered" class="fb_edge_widget_with_comment fb_iframe_widget"&gt;&lt;span style="height: 35px; width: 400px;"&gt;&lt;iframe scrolling="no" id="f173ae29392b4d2" name="f350ab81e2577f2" style="border: medium none ; overflow: hidden; height: 35px; width: 400px;" title="Like this content on Facebook." class="fb_ltr" src="http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?api_key=238513852844796&amp;locale=en_US& amp;sdk=joey&amp;channel_url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.a k.facebook.com%2Fconnect%2Fxd_arbiter.php%3Fversio n%3D12%23cb%3Df3f39a3142ff37a%26origin%3Dhttp%253A %252F%252Fwww.autosport.com%252Ff355c309d8dce2%26d omain%3Dwww.autosport.com%26relation%3Dparent.pare nt&amp;href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosport.com%2Fnews% 2Freport.php%2Fid%2F104001&amp;node_type=link&amp; width=400&amp;font=verdana&amp;layout=standard&amp ;colorscheme=light&amp;action=like&amp;show_faces= false&amp;send=false&amp;extended_social_context=f alse" /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/fb:like&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;img hspace="10" height="183" width="275" border="1" align="right" src="http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1351968381.jpg" alt="Vettel to start from last after penalty" /&gt;Sebastian Vettel will have to start the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix from the back of the grid after being disqualified from the qualifying session.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;The Formula 1 world championship leader contravened the rules when he parked his Red Bull on track at the end of qualifying, having been ordered to stop by his team due to a developing problem.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;F1 regulations stipulate that drivers must return to the pits after qualifying to provide a one-litre fuel sample, but the stewards said Vettel's car had &amp;quot;insufficient fuel&amp;quot; for that.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Vettel had &lt;a href="http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103974"&gt;qualified third before the penalty&lt;/a&gt;, which was announced after several hours of deliberation by the stewards.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;His championship rival Fernando Alonso, who is currently 13 points behind with three races to go, will now be sixth on the grid. McLaren's Lewis Hamilton claimed pole position.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Full story to follow...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;[/QUOTE]</iframe>
 
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 01:57 PM
  #633  
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WOW we are close ...haha
 
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 03:16 PM
  #634  
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Interesting article

The Hindu : Sport / Motorsport : Did Indian customs cost Alonso the title?
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 06:16 AM
  #635  
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Not fair
Red Bull has made major changes to the set-up of Sebastian Vettel's car ahead of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix in a bid to help his chances of charging through the field.
The world champion will start from the pitlane at Yas Marina after his team elected to remove his RB8 from parc ferme overnight in the wake of the fuel cell problems that led to his exclusion from qualifying.
The team claimed that it had chosen to take the car out of parc ferme to get to the bottom of why the FIA was unable to extract the mandatory one-litre sample of fuel it requires for post-qualifying checks.
But as well as working on the fuel issue, Red Bull has made hefty revisions to the set-up of the car to try to boost Vettel's chances of recovery.
A statement issued by the FIA a few hours ahead of the race revealed that Red Bull has replaced the gearbox of the car, made changes to the suspension and had also fitted new gear ratios to those submitted after second practice.
The changes to the car will be primarily aimed at optimising its chances of overtaking other cars - especially because in its configuration on Saturday the Red Bull was slowest through the speed trap at the end of the main straight.
According to the FIA's official speed trap figures issued after qualifying, Vettel and team-mate Mark Webber were at the bottom of the rankings - with speeds of 193.5 and 193.4mph respectively.
This compares with the fastest speed of Pastor Maldonado at 202.4mph - while main rivals Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton were recorded at 198.7 and 195.0mph
Red Bull is likely to have ensured that Vettel has more straightline speed potential in the race, so he is more able to make use of the two DRS zones at Yas Marina and overtake other cars.
Team principal Christian Horner said on Saturday night that he believed there remained opportunities for Vettel to score points in the race as the championship enters its final stages.
"There is no reason why Sebastian cannot salvage something," he said.
Red Bull is still in with a chance of securing the constructors' championship in the Abu Dhabi GP.
To do so, it needs avoid being outscored by six points by Ferrari and by 16 by McLaren on Sunday.
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 06:19 AM
  #636  
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And the ugly step nose is gone next year
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 08:56 AM
  #637  
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If you are not a Ferrari fan it was a very exciting race.


However
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 09:21 AM
  #638  
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With two races to go it's going to be tight. What happened to Vettel passing outside of the race course?

For those who had their sound muted during the post race interview.....

Kimi said "they had been giving him *hit" and

Vettel said " he didn't *uck it up"

On the podium? Yep class.....

Alonso did his best with what he had to work with but Vettel made advantage with every chance they had.... Before AND after the green flag...

.
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 10:35 AM
  #639  
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He gave it up two corners latter which saved him form a drive through

That podium was priceless...they did not quiet get the bleep quick enough
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 11:02 AM
  #640  
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Didn`t see the race but had to be some drive from Vettel. Must have been the drive of the day.
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 11:29 AM
  #641  
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Originally Posted by Lazy K
Didn`t see the race but had to be some drive from Vettel. Must have been the drive of the day.
Indeed it was an awesome drive to the front.
 
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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 12:19 PM
  #642  
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OK I will admit he got some help getting to the front
 
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Old Nov 5, 2012 | 12:34 PM
  #643  
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Very good and a ton of detail

By Gary Anderson BBC F1 technical analyst Sebastian Vettel's rise from a pit-lane start to a podium finish at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix might make Red Bull stop and think about the way they approach Formula 1.
Red Bull's philosophy is to run short gears for best acceleration, gain as much downforce as they can to maximise cornering speeds and go for the ultimate lap time in qualifying.
The idea is to start at the front of the grid and blitz the first few laps, get out of the one-second window so their rivals can't employ DRS and control the race from there with the fastest car.
But it's a strategy that has inherent risks - fail to qualify at the front, or make a mistake, and it's a bit more tricky. Overtaking will be hard. As Vettel's team-mate Mark Webber proved with his incident-packed race in Abu Dhabi after losing places at the start.
This is why Red Bull decided to start Vettel from the pit lane rather than the back of the grid following his exclusion from qualifying . It meant they could change the set-up.
They gave him longer gear ratios and less downforce to give him more straight-line speed and help him overtake as he climbed back through the field.
Vettel went from 23rd fastest in the speed traps in qualifying to fourth in the race, 10km/h faster than he had been on Saturday. And even so, he was still the fastest car in the race, and set the fastest lap on the final lap.
He climbed through the field because the car was quick, the set-up allowed him to and he drove really well - apart from his two mistakes in damaging his front wing.
So I think Red Bull will go away from Abu Dhabi scratching their heads a little about the philosophy of how they run the car.
There are two races to go, they will decide the championship between Vettel and his rival Fernando Alonso of Ferrari and neither driver can afford a bad race.
Red Bull need to cover their back. If for whatever reason they don't qualify on pole, they need to be sure they can race well, and Vettel's race proved they can do that with a different set-up and still be really quick.
THE ROOT OF FERRARI'S PROBLEMS

The big mystery of this season has been how the Ferrari can be a second off the pace in qualifying and only a tenth of a second or two off it in the race. I think I've figured out what the problem is.
It is a rear wing and diffuser problem, but it's a little complicated to explain, so bear with me.
In qualifying, the DRS overtaking aid can be used all the time. A driver comes off a corner and opens the DRS as soon as possible, reducing the drag and the wing wake, which gives extra straight-line speed.
As the car goes faster, the rear gets closer to the ground and that 'stalls' the diffuser, which is the underfloor which curves upwards at the back of the car. 'Stalling' means the airflow is not attached to it any more, and that reduces the downforce it produces.
When the driver brakes for the next corner, the car changes attitude - the rear comes up.
I am 99.99% sure that at that time, on the Ferrari, the diffuser does not re-attach immediately.
Because of that, the airflow at the back of the car is different, so the rear wing does not re-attach either.
So on initial corner entry, 18 or 20 times a lap in qualifying or whatever, the rear of the car has less downforce and therefore is unstable for a given amount of time until the diffuser and rear wing re-attach.
This rear instability on corner entry is what the Ferrari drivers are complaining about.
To reduce rear instability, you run less front downforce, but that gives understeer - less front grip - when the diffuser re-attaches. As it happens, less front wing also means less overall downforce.
The braking duration for a lot of these corners will be about a second. If the diffuser is not re-attaching for 0.2-0.3secs, that is a problem.
In the race, though, the DRS can only be used in specified zones and when the driver is within a second of the car in front.
So during the race on the non-DRS straights the diffuser will still stall but the rear wing is still working, which means when the driver brakes the diffuser re-attaches more easily. So in the race the driver has rear stability other than when he is braking after using the DRS.

That means in the race the Ferrari is more consistent.
You'll probably find that the stall-point on the diffuser in the race is at a lower ride-height (a higher top speed) than in qualifying, when it will stall earlier because the DRS is open on every straight.
So my suggestion to Ferrari would be to have a slightly less aggressive DRS system. They have one of the biggest gains in top speed when the DRS is open compared to when it is closed. I would reduce that a bit but make sure the rear-wing airflow is a bit more robust.
With the resources Ferrari have, that is something they could do very quickly if they got on with it - certainly in time for the next race.
They are using four or five rear wing designs and chopping and changing between them, so they are going round and round the problem but not actually fixing it.
This lack of consistency may also explain why Alonso was not able to improve on his final run in qualifying last weekend.
He made a point in Abu Dhabi of saying the fact he did the same lap time on three different runs in qualifying meant he had got the most out of the car.
Normally, that would be wrong - a driver should improve on his final run because up until then it is all about 'banker' laps. He should save the 100% on-the-limit lap until the end. Also, in Abu Dhabi the ambient temperature was dropping all the time as night fell and that would give more engine power.
But perhaps the instability at the rear of the Ferrari limits its potential.


The driver can only increase his effort level if he has the confidence to do so. If he doesn't have confidence on the corner entry, then he's stuck. The driver can't go quicker because he is at the limit of what the car will respond to.
The contrast with the Red Bull is interesting - Vettel nearly always goes faster on his final qualifying run. But while that car moves around and needs a lot of driving, it does respond to extra effort from the driver without doing anything nasty.
That means it is predictable, gives the driver confidence and the driver can find a tenth of a second or two.
So it was very instructive to see that on a weekend when Vettel missed nearly all of final practice, he not only did not get pole, but he also was beaten by Webber. He didn't have the confidence in the car he normally does.
That's a problem Alonso is probably facing every weekend.
 
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Old Nov 5, 2012 | 03:19 PM
  #644  
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Interesting read and it makes sense but can Ferrari find the stability Alonso needs in ten days. One thing that has hurt Ferrari is breaking out of the "free testing" mold mind set. This limited testing, while equal to all teams, has hindered them more than others; IMO. There's just no replacement for "on track" tests & development. It has hurt the sport and done little for cost reduction. That said it has been an interesting year so far....
 
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Old Nov 5, 2012 | 03:52 PM
  #645  
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No they cannot...they have had MAJOR issues with the wind tunnel...during the years of unlimited testing, they used their track to verify new bits......however that bit them in their collective ***.....they never modernized the tunnel.......all the other teams did not have their own test track, so they really got good with correlating data form bits to tunnel to track...now Ferrari has shut down the tunnel until next year.

Then they will have the most modern in F1...it is about time.
Can you imagine a car that was as fast as anyone's and in the hands of FA...WOW

They are currently using the Toyota, which when built five+ years ago was the best...then Toyota does keep it current ...but now it is not state of the art
 

Last edited by IB Tim; Nov 5, 2012 at 03:55 PM.
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