My Truck May Have Met Its Match...
#106
Definition of commercial use is in commerce.
If you are receiving anything in compensation for the use of your vehicle, be it a moped delivering pizza, it, by law has to have a US DOT number if based in the US.
There is nothing to do with with weight as to defining commercial use, Do not confuse commercial service with a CDL license requirement which starts at 26,001 up solo truck, 10,001 and up on a trailer, IF in Interstate service. Intrastate laws such as where I live allow a combination vehicle up to 26,000 without a CDL, if not crossing state lines - or Intrastate.
This is why my state did a crackdown on hot shot rigs, drivers simply did not care to educate themselves on definitions and the applicable rules and seemed confused that commercial use has absolutely nothing to do with a drivers CDL requirement on certain weight based regulations. The uneducated were causing unneeded collisions and damage, as well as injuries and at least three deaths in the last few years before the crackdown
If you are receiving anything in compensation for the use of your vehicle, be it a moped delivering pizza, it, by law has to have a US DOT number if based in the US.
There is nothing to do with with weight as to defining commercial use, Do not confuse commercial service with a CDL license requirement which starts at 26,001 up solo truck, 10,001 and up on a trailer, IF in Interstate service. Intrastate laws such as where I live allow a combination vehicle up to 26,000 without a CDL, if not crossing state lines - or Intrastate.
This is why my state did a crackdown on hot shot rigs, drivers simply did not care to educate themselves on definitions and the applicable rules and seemed confused that commercial use has absolutely nothing to do with a drivers CDL requirement on certain weight based regulations. The uneducated were causing unneeded collisions and damage, as well as injuries and at least three deaths in the last few years before the crackdown
#107
Before posting the link to the traffic fatality data that the State of Washington tabulates, I want to first make it clear that I am of similar mind as @dmanlyr , who makes the point that adding air bags and higher capacity tires will not change the GVWR.
As to the legal ramifications of neglecting to abide by the vehicle manufacturer's GVWR as defined on the label of the door jamb, as described in the Owner's Manual, as explained in Ford's RV & Towing Guide, as detailed in the Camper Loading guidelines, and as common sense would inform the reader of the specifications and guidance on these resources.... if, despite all of that, one still neglected to read or follow that guidance, and was involved in a collision resulting in a fatality, that neglect will be rephrased as "negligence."
If a relentless attorney finds the driver boasting of neglecting to abide by the GVWR labels affixed to the truck, then that neglect may be rephrased as "willful negligence."
If the big giant trailer is obliterated to pieces all over the highway, it may be impossible to weigh it after the fact, so then the litigators may turn to the GVWR rating of the trailer, as a reasonable basis for arguing percentage of fault, since most laws that govern vehicle weight include the GVWRATING of towed and towing vehicles.
A photo of a deceased pregnant mother, followed up by a photo of the GVWR label of the trailer, followed by a photo of the labels on the door jamb of the truck, followed by a photo of a post boasting that these labels don't mean anything, followed by a request to the jury to deliver justice to this family and send a message to their community of the responsibility drivers must accept when exercising the privilege to drive... is very likely to convince a jury that a driver who was willfully negligent incurs a higher percentage of "at fault" culpability than a driver who did not neglect to abide by the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations.
Since the issue of legality is only an issue when one gets caught, and one can get caught by "accident" so to speak, the prudent will give civil liability just as much consideration as criminal liability.
Still, the question of whether and how crackdowns of enforcement of loads hauled or towed by pick up trucks influences traffic fatality statistics was intriguing, and I too, would like to learn more about the crackdown cause and statistical effects described in the quotes below:
Washington Traffic Safety Commission WA GOV Traffic Fatality Dashboard
As to the legal ramifications of neglecting to abide by the vehicle manufacturer's GVWR as defined on the label of the door jamb, as described in the Owner's Manual, as explained in Ford's RV & Towing Guide, as detailed in the Camper Loading guidelines, and as common sense would inform the reader of the specifications and guidance on these resources.... if, despite all of that, one still neglected to read or follow that guidance, and was involved in a collision resulting in a fatality, that neglect will be rephrased as "negligence."
If a relentless attorney finds the driver boasting of neglecting to abide by the GVWR labels affixed to the truck, then that neglect may be rephrased as "willful negligence."
If the big giant trailer is obliterated to pieces all over the highway, it may be impossible to weigh it after the fact, so then the litigators may turn to the GVWR rating of the trailer, as a reasonable basis for arguing percentage of fault, since most laws that govern vehicle weight include the GVWRATING of towed and towing vehicles.
A photo of a deceased pregnant mother, followed up by a photo of the GVWR label of the trailer, followed by a photo of the labels on the door jamb of the truck, followed by a photo of a post boasting that these labels don't mean anything, followed by a request to the jury to deliver justice to this family and send a message to their community of the responsibility drivers must accept when exercising the privilege to drive... is very likely to convince a jury that a driver who was willfully negligent incurs a higher percentage of "at fault" culpability than a driver who did not neglect to abide by the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations.
Since the issue of legality is only an issue when one gets caught, and one can get caught by "accident" so to speak, the prudent will give civil liability just as much consideration as criminal liability.
Still, the question of whether and how crackdowns of enforcement of loads hauled or towed by pick up trucks influences traffic fatality statistics was intriguing, and I too, would like to learn more about the crackdown cause and statistical effects described in the quotes below:
Several years ago my state finally cracked down on the so callled hot shot rigs, glad they did it to get the overloaded dangerous junk off the road. It was a learing experience for those that flew under the commercial radar so to speak, but statisticly it has paid off, less damage, less injuries and deaths can be directly attributed to this crackdown.
This is why my state did a crackdown on hot shot rigs, drivers simply did not care to educate themselves on definitions and the applicable rules and seemed confused that commercial use has absolutely nothing to do with a drivers CDL requirement on certain weight based regulations. The uneducated were causing unneeded collisions and damage, as well as injuries and at least three deaths in the last few years before the crackdown
Washington Traffic Safety Commission WA GOV Traffic Fatality Dashboard
#108
I engage in these types of threads because I believe in the good faith effort many make to be "legal" as well as reasonable and safe.
Not following manufacturer's recommendations could potentially have legal ramifications... or not. And we all hear folks talk about the lawyer they spoke with. I've spoken with some, too. All first and foremost acknowledged this was not their specialty (even the personal injury lawyers). All have also said in one fashion or another, there is no such thing as "you're good". And they will always say in one way or another, if you want to escape potential liability in the event of an accident, do not drive.
Getting back to the manufacturer's recommendations. Well, I confess, I too, do not take them very seriously. And before some lawyer wants to use this post to nail me in the event of some future calamity.... Let me clarify... I own a Ranger that has a 7800 lb towing limit. It is a great truck, but I would NEVER put that kind of weight behind it. I have no doubt an early 2000's dually could pull and more safely handle twice it's rating, than a Ranger could handle 90% of its.
Another thought: That attorney who may try to argue willful negligence, etc. will likely be up against even an amateur lawyer that notes the weight being towed was not in violation of any law or regulation, again and again and again. Therefore, their client was willfully ignoring a sticker that their state also willfully ignores.
Additionally, it is always odd to me that there is so much consternation on forums about the liability of exceeding a door jamb sticker, but virtually none about the liability risks of running a lift kit, grill guard, winch bumper, etc. I can't say for sure, but I suspect an eager lawyer could do a lot more damage to you over that. The idea of the weight above sticker being the cause for an accident is an argument. The winch bumper on the lifted truck that comes through the passenger window above all the designed safety features of that vehicle (and every vehicle) and kills someone is not arguable as to the cause of death. And that lawyer will likely add to his position that those 37" inch tires reduced your vehicle's ability to stop. But there are countless threads on these modifications with nary a whisper of "you might be opening yourself up to liability". Still, even this operator would not be in violation of the law. And again, if the state saw no harm in it, why should he have?
I am very cautious about advising others how much they can safely tow. I do suggest people become very familiar with the laws of their state, use a tow vehicle that is up to the task and in good repair, use appropriate equipment and drive sensibly. I don't typically mention the sticker or tow rating, because I believe they are often way too high.
Finally, in my state, there is no law prohibiting exceeding the sticker or even tire and axle ratings if you are towing for your own personal use. Doing so may cost you dearly in a number of ways. But the fact of doing so is not by itself "illegal".
Everyone be safe.
Not following manufacturer's recommendations could potentially have legal ramifications... or not. And we all hear folks talk about the lawyer they spoke with. I've spoken with some, too. All first and foremost acknowledged this was not their specialty (even the personal injury lawyers). All have also said in one fashion or another, there is no such thing as "you're good". And they will always say in one way or another, if you want to escape potential liability in the event of an accident, do not drive.
Getting back to the manufacturer's recommendations. Well, I confess, I too, do not take them very seriously. And before some lawyer wants to use this post to nail me in the event of some future calamity.... Let me clarify... I own a Ranger that has a 7800 lb towing limit. It is a great truck, but I would NEVER put that kind of weight behind it. I have no doubt an early 2000's dually could pull and more safely handle twice it's rating, than a Ranger could handle 90% of its.
Another thought: That attorney who may try to argue willful negligence, etc. will likely be up against even an amateur lawyer that notes the weight being towed was not in violation of any law or regulation, again and again and again. Therefore, their client was willfully ignoring a sticker that their state also willfully ignores.
Additionally, it is always odd to me that there is so much consternation on forums about the liability of exceeding a door jamb sticker, but virtually none about the liability risks of running a lift kit, grill guard, winch bumper, etc. I can't say for sure, but I suspect an eager lawyer could do a lot more damage to you over that. The idea of the weight above sticker being the cause for an accident is an argument. The winch bumper on the lifted truck that comes through the passenger window above all the designed safety features of that vehicle (and every vehicle) and kills someone is not arguable as to the cause of death. And that lawyer will likely add to his position that those 37" inch tires reduced your vehicle's ability to stop. But there are countless threads on these modifications with nary a whisper of "you might be opening yourself up to liability". Still, even this operator would not be in violation of the law. And again, if the state saw no harm in it, why should he have?
I am very cautious about advising others how much they can safely tow. I do suggest people become very familiar with the laws of their state, use a tow vehicle that is up to the task and in good repair, use appropriate equipment and drive sensibly. I don't typically mention the sticker or tow rating, because I believe they are often way too high.
Finally, in my state, there is no law prohibiting exceeding the sticker or even tire and axle ratings if you are towing for your own personal use. Doing so may cost you dearly in a number of ways. But the fact of doing so is not by itself "illegal".
Everyone be safe.
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#109
Just want to say Y2KW57 while you may have originally assumed wrong about this one topic, I really appreciate the time you take to write up some of your more lengthy posts on many topics on the forums providing correct information and hardly any assumptions without knowledge to support.
Federal Compliance Clauses
Federal law prevents States from enforcing vehicle weight limits on Interstate highways that deviate from established Federal weight limits and specific exceptions.
https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/policy/rpt_congress/truck_sw_laws/app_a.htmAccording to these provisions,
"the United States Secretary of Transportation shall withhold 50 percent of appropriated funds from a State that sets weight limits for Interstate travel that are higher or lower than the standard Federal limits for Interstate highways, with some exceptions"
(23 U.S.C. §127[a]).Despite the foregoing, there are still plenty of "grandfathered" provisions that differentiate the laws of states when it comes to weights.
Here is an overview of some of the state to state deviations:
US DOT Federal Highway Administration: Compilation of Existing State Truck Size and Weight Limit Laws
Given that 50% of federal funds are on the line, I was still surprised at the number of seemingly "prevented" deviations that are "grandfathered", after reading through that very long document.
#110
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