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Getting back on track just a little bit, my steering wheel is upside down and is occasionally depending on the terrain and whatnot so hard to turn that I don't want to physically try because I feel I will break something. This happened a little while ago. I was backing my trailer up at an angle down a hill the steering wheel got so hard to turn when I came to a stop I couldn't really turn it. I read that the power steering pumps on these trucks were not strong enough for this application and that with bigger tires this is normal. Is that true? I only have 285s on right now. Do you reckon my pump is getting weak? It is a rebuilt pump and I have no idea how long it's been on there. In the case that it is, I'll have to get that on top of a new 36 spline steering gear and longer pitman arm. I do not plan on having an upside down steering wheel forever. I can't handle it. And I don't plan on bolting my seat to the roof anytime soon LOL. Did we decide that the best way to fix my upside down steering wheel is a 36 spline steering gear and pitman arm that is a little bit longer? Considering I can't adjust the drag link at all or it affects my steering I feel like the steering gear doesn't have a wide enough swing because it's maxing out before hitting the lock if I adjust the drag link at all. Does that make sense? Does the 36 spline box have a wider lock to lock in the gearbox itself? So many questions.
Now how did you go and sneak in another divergent topic, deserving of its own separate thread, into whatever the original topic was of this thread... right under my nose... with me fully participating in the divergence?
Originally Posted by Hyakkimaru
I seem to just have that effect on people
Technically there was no just one thing this thread was for hence why I named it more problems being plural. This was all part of my master scheme to reel you in. I've been planning for a while! Who's to say how deep my fangs go?!
Before connecting what? If you mean the steering gear it was centered when I put it on but, my pitman arm had to be 45° off because it had the splines in an X formation instead of a plus formation. The year and my wheels were all centered when I put it all on. Steering gear steering wheel is upside down turns locked to lock no problem but if you rotate the drag link adjuster either way in terms of screwing it in or out to adjust the steering wheel all the way around to straight I lose my turning on one side because the steering gear Max is out. Basically if the steering wheel is anything but upside down the steering gear Max is out before hitting the lock. I lose all of my drag link adjusting because if I adjust it I lose steering radius. Do you reckon the e99 box didn't have as good of a lock to lock inside the gear itself?
So as you know when you adjust the drag link to steer the steering wheel it pulls the pitman arm which turns the steering gear a little bit. Well if I adjust the steering wheel to when it's up and down the pitman arm is off to the side instead of straightforward. The steering gear blinds and the steering wheel will be centered but the pitman arm is off to the side due to its x centering splines
Of course I could be wrong but when I got the steering gear and it was supposedly centered the big splines that are supposed to center the pitman arm were up and down instead of like an x. But either way the only thing I could do is switch the pitman arm over 180° from where it's at and it would screw it all up the other way and have the same problem because my steering gear Max is out before hitting the lock if I adjust the steering wheel. Kind of f***** up. Whichever way I turn the drag link to center the steering wheel I lose steering on one side of the other at least all the way to the lock won't happen anyhow. Sorry I got a little long winded here I was just trying to make sure I explained everything where everybody could understand it I'm driving down the road using talk to text so my mind's a bit wandered while I'm writing this so take everything with a grain of salt because I may have worded it improperly
Okay let's go one step at a time here. Before you put the pitman arm on the output of the steering gear, was the steering gear centered smack in the middle of its lock-to-lock without the rest of the steering system connected to the steering gear? i.e. it was just the bare output shaft of the steering gear and no pitman arm was on it. You steered it lock-to-lock to figure out where center is based on the steering gear's own internal limits, not the knuckles on the ends of the shaft hitting their stops? If you did, are you telling me that when the steering gear is centered, the splines on the output shaft of the steering gear did not allow you to mount the pitman arm pointing straight forward?
Originally Posted by Hyakkimaru
Getting back on track just a little bit, my steering wheel is upside down and is occasionally depending on the terrain and whatnot so hard to turn that I don't want to physically try because I feel I will break something. This happened a little while ago. I was backing my trailer up at an angle down a hill the steering wheel got so hard to turn when I came to a stop I couldn't really turn it. I read that the power steering pumps on these trucks were not strong enough for this application and that with bigger tires this is normal. Is that true? I only have 285s on right now. Do you reckon my pump is getting weak? It is a rebuilt pump and I have no idea how long it's been on there. In the case that it is, I'll have to get that on top of a new 36 spline steering gear and longer pitman arm. I do not plan on having an upside down steering wheel forever. I can't handle it. And I don't plan on bolting my seat to the roof anytime soon LOL. Did we decide that the best way to fix my upside down steering wheel is a 36 spline steering gear and pitman arm that is a little bit longer? Considering I can't adjust the drag link at all or it affects my steering I feel like the steering gear doesn't have a wide enough swing because it's maxing out before hitting the lock if I adjust the drag link at all. Does that make sense? Does the 36 spline box have a wider lock to lock in the gearbox itself? So many questions.
Yes, the power steering pumps doing double duty for both power steering and brake boosting means the steering usually gets very heavy when you have your foot on the brakes too. As for your upside down steering wheel, see my comments above. I feel like we're missing something obvious.
Okay let's go one step at a time here. Before you put the pitman arm on the output of the steering gear, was the steering gear centered smack in the middle of its lock-to-lock without the rest of the steering system connected to the steering gear? i.e. it was just the bare output shaft of the steering gear and no pitman arm was on it. You steered it lock-to-lock to figure out where center is based on the steering gear's own internal limits, not the knuckles on the ends of the shaft hitting their stops? If you did, are you telling me that when the steering gear is centered, the splines on the output shaft of the steering gear did not allow you to mount the pitman arm pointing straight forward?
If I had the steering gear properly centered which I believe I did, I could not put the pitman arm on pointing straight forward. It had to be at a 45° angle off to the side. As you know there are four centering splines that are fatter than the rest at 90° from each other on the shaft on the steering gear. Well with it centered one of those bigger splines were pointed straightforward. But on my pitman arm those splines were in a x formation so I could only put it on at a 45° angle one way or the other. Of course that is all assuming I was correct in my centering of the steering gear which I don't remember anymore. Here is a picture of the pitman arm I bought. And then a picture of a 36 spline. Notice the difference in where the bigger splines are located on the 32 spline model it is in an X formation versus the 36 spline model it is in a plus formation. The one on top has 32 splines. In an attempt to possibly see if I have the wrong pitman arm meaning it's a x instead of a plus, I am taking my drag link loose from the pitman arm and I am going to turn the steering wheel both ways and see if it goes in equal amount both ways to see if the steering gear is centered. I will report back.
Yes, the power steering pumps doing double duty for both power steering and brake boosting means the steering usually gets very heavy when you have your foot on the brakes too. As for your upside down steering wheel, see my comments above. I feel like we're missing something obvious.
Originally Posted by RacinJasonWV
I do as well. Personally I would start by replacing all the bent steering parts before digging into it too deeply.
Okay so I found something. I don't think the steering gear was centered. I think I have the wrong centering spline formation on my pitman arm. The steering gear wants to turn further to the left than it does to the right. The reason I can't adjust it to work is because my pitman arm is hitting my track bar mount. Here's a video of what I mean.
Yup. Judging by the pictures of the two pitman arms, I think trying to use a 4wd pitman arm on a 2wd steering gear is your alignment issue. Why they would have the splines different between 4wd and 2wd steering gears and pitman arms boggles my mind though.
The other issue is the pitman arm hitting the track bar bracket. With the knuckles at full lock to the left, is there enough clearance for the pitman arm to articulate fully before hitting the track bar bracket?
This says in description that it does not clear the oem track bar bracket, that you need a lift bracket found on their online store. Which also means your modified track bar may be too long.
In 2020 I replaced my steering box as I had the same slop in the steering everyone seems to develop over time. When I did I also replaced the pitman arm. The part number was stamped on the old one, YC35-3590-AB and was about 9.5 inches long. I was told that that part number was superseded to 4C3Z-3590-DA, which is what I bought and installed. I noticed, however, the superseded part was shorter than the original, by a few inches and it had a bend in it despite the original being nearly flat. Nevertheless, I figured Ford engineers knew what they were doing and I installed the new shorter arm. My slop was cured but I did notice my turning radius increased pretty dramatically. I assumed it was due to the shorter arm and eventually got used to it. Fast forward to today when I parked the truck and left the wheels turned all the way to the left. I happened to look at the wheels and I could see the end link that attaches to the pitman arm was hitting against the large bolt that attaches the track bar to the bracket.It must have been hitting for some time because the bolt has a dent in it. Anyone else experience this? Thoughts on resolving it? I figure this is definitely causing the issue with the turning radius increase. I'd prefer not to install the original longer arm but other than grinding down the bolt a little to allow the end link to pass it I'm not sure I have another solution. See below (never mind the excess grease):
Originally Posted by AACoPD05
Just an update on this for anyone interested. I swapped out the wrong arm with my original longest one and all is right in the world again, its crazy how much it affected the turning radius. Here is a picture of all three arms, part numbers and their total lengths:
Left to right:
YC35-3590-AB - 9.5 inches - this was installed originally in 2001 when the truck was built, arm is practically flat, for mono beam
4C34-3590-CA - 8.5 inches - this part is the superseded part to the above, both ends have a very slight bend, for mono beam trucks
4C34-3590-DA - 8 inches - this is for twin I beam trucks, both ends have a significant bend, will fit but causes the end link to hit the bolt head for the track bar at a hard left turn severely impacting turning radius.
Yup. Judging by the pictures of the two pitman arms, I think trying to use a 4wd pitman arm on a 2wd steering gear is your alignment issue. Why they would have the splines different between 4wd and 2wd steering gears and pitman arms boggles my mind though.
The other issue is the pitman arm hitting the track bar bracket. With the knuckles at full lock to the left, is there enough clearance for the pitman arm to articulate fully before hitting the track bar bracket?
I have a 4x4 steering gear though.... It is an e99 steering gear for a 4WD truck that I bought when I did the axle swap.
If I adjust the drag link properly I can achieve full lock on the hub without hitting the track bar mount both ways. But my steering wheel is upside down. With what Y2K posted, I may just need the longer pitman arm and a 36 spline gearbox to accept it. Or if possible just a longer pitman arm for my e99 box. Also, prob get the pitman arm that has the bigger splines oriented 45° to the side from where mine are.
Also, the longer flat one looks more like the one that was on the truck I got the 4x4 off of. It had a flat pitman arm. I currently have a bent pitman arm. Here is a pic of the one that was on the original 4x4 truck vs what I have on now. The first pic is the original.
There really is zero benefit to going to a 36 spline box, other then a slightly thicker output shaft.
I'll keep that in mind. The only reason I was saying to switch to a 36 spline box is because there are more pitman arms available for them.
I linked a e99 lift pitman arm and a track bar bracket above in a previous post
I appreciate it. However, I feel like the drop parts would just move my problem further down from the steering gear. Do you think it would be able to give me the room to adjust the drag link to straighten my wheel? What I'm scared of is the pitman arm you linked that is before I lifted truck still has the X formation on the centering splines. So my steering gear will still be off center. I feel I will still have the same problem. Thoughts? Do they sell the exact same pitman arm but with the centering splines and a + formation?
Hear me out. My pitman arm hits the track bar mount when turning left. But I can shorten the drag link and fix that. But then I can't turn all the way to the right. If I turn my pitman arm 45° to the right (by getting the + formation splines instead of the x) and get a 9 1/2 inch pitman arm(the one that originally came on this axle) it should give me the extra adjustment room I need to turn the wheel straight. I think my steering gear is turning further to the left than the right due to the offset pitman arm. If I have the straight one, it will center on the steering gear instead of being offset. And the longer arm will push the drag link a little further one way or the other without hitting the track bar mount. I hope that makes sense. Assuming I worded everything right, what do you think?
Here is the way I worded it to Joel. He and I have been texting for a little bit. Maybe this will make sense worded like this versus the way I have been wording it. I just want to put out there I am not knocking anybody's ideas down, I am simply adding my ideas to the mix so we can all come up with an educated guess as to what I should do. I'm not trying to be mean to anybody in any way because I sincerely appreciate everybody's help. Thanks!
Edit* joel said I could grind off the big centering splines on the pitman arm and rotate it to wherever I need it to center the steering gear for now. It sounds like a good plan. Anybody have any objections?
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