And people, please stop with the "Because it's OHC it'll magically rev higher" or "Pushrod motors make more torque" or my favorite." I-6's automatically make more torque".........

 

DOHC, you misunderstood. I wanted the rpm at which peak torque was made, not the torque output of the motors. The point being, as currently set up, the Hemi breathes better than the V10 Ford.

Lighter truck/high horsepower/high rpm mean it's faster than a heavier truck with slightly less or slightly more horsepower and lower rpm.

Torque and horsepower per lb. favor the Dodge over the heavier Ford. With either the new or old V10 motor.

 

I've race two and had no problems with either. Both were good ol fahsion deserted higway races. One with a freind and another with my next door neighbor (well he lives a quarter mile away but thats my closest neighbor. both were nearly identicle trucks, quad cab 4x4s, have no idea what gearing either has so don't ask, we were racing truck against truck, not apples and apples, just race what you bring! I have a another freind that has a 2500 quad cab with a chip, exhaust, and also 33" tires and he won't even try, trust me I've been tryin to get him to race since he bought it. Heck, he can't even break his tires loose, In that 2500 with 33" tires the dang thing won't barely get out of it's own way, well maybe I'm exagurating a little but it's definitly no speed demon. I'm not saying mine is all that as there are a lot quicker V10s out there than mine. oh and I have driven a 3V V10 and its unbeleivable what a difference the extra horsepower coupled with 265 tires and 4.10 gearings does compared to my 03'.

Maybe you should come for a ride if you don't think I'm gonin anywhere when my tach tips 4500 rpm, thats 2nd gear at 70mph with my TT and boat together heading up one of the two 1/4 mile 7% graded hills that ly between my house and the lake (no mountains just rolling hills). And just for conversation thats with a combined weight of just under 16k. good luck doing 50mph with that big bad hemi. If you think I'm feeding ya a line I can prove the part about the TT & boat as you can look in my gallery, as far as the speed without coming for a ride theres no way to prove it, just my word against yours.

Just to put this in perspective an 05 3V V10 equiped with 4.30 factory gears has its advertised 362 HP and within 10% torque to a 6.0L PS Diesel, Try that one out for size (the 6.0L can't get 4.30s from the factory).

Even if you don't beleive a single word I say a 2wd Reg Cab 8ft box V10 SD would walk all over a hemi, especialy being a quad cab 4x4, it wonldn't even be close. a basic Sd like that would probably tip the scale a bit under 6k and your ram would be within 500lbs, just think about you statement and the fact that the V10 has a abundance more amount of torque and measurable amount of more HP with a motor that will rev at the very least as quick as the hemi and is coupled to a supioror transmision, you can't honestly still think that ram has a chance. heck even if hypothiticaly if teh 3V V10 was avalibale with the 4R100 it still wouldn't even be a comparison.

 

Hey...lets not forget the 6.1L HEMI. With the 6.1L SRT version produces another 85 hp and 30 lb-ft of torque than the 5.7 liter Hemi.

So that puts the 6.1L at 430hp and 405 lb-ft torque. Those a pretty big numbers...

Ok...now for the Lightning challenge: 5.7L with a Whipple supercharger to add power at both low and high rpm. It helps to raise power to about 430 hp and 480 lb-ft of torque.

Those HEMI engines are pretty impressive. Lighter weight than the old 5.9L and way more power. Hard to beat!

Of course...I am a FORD GUY...so no flames please.

 

I thought we were talking 1/2 ton hemis since the Titan was also mentioned.

Don't think anyone is arguing the V10 makes more power, the debate has been it can't make up a 2000# weight difference.

Please explain your 10% torque diff between a diesel and V10. I'm thinking more like over 20%.....570 vs 450?

 

First off SLE - I don't own a Ram. I have no dog in this "fight". For another, just so you know...I like the V10 engines alot myself. I'm having a hard time believing the 3 valve would have a chance, but I hav'ent actually driven one either, so I can give some benefit of doubt there. I know there's no way any 2 valve V10 could hold it's own against the Dodge 1500 Hemi or Titan 5.6 Endurance - I just don't believe it.

That 3 valver must be something else. Not only is it the very best gasoline towing engine going, but it also turns the SD into the fastest production truck - cept for the SRT10 (but of course a few guys are claiming to whip up on those too).

I really gotta find one of these things so I can see for myself.

 

Gotcha, All I remember off the top of my head is 3200RPM for the 425# V10.(that's the old 310HP motor)

 

Sorry I have a mis print - total weight of camper / boat and truck is closer to 18k -
7100lb truck (Full tank of fuel at DOT Truck Scale) - Add me the wife the dog, fire wood, two extra deep cycle batteries, 24 gals fuel for the boat - propane tank for grill ect ect ect = min of 8100lbs

27 Ft Travel Trailor -dry weighs 6400lb (wieghed at purchace) - add clothes, food, dishes, tools, gas grill, 40 gals water, 2 more deep cycle bateries, 2 40 gal propane tanks, wood blocking, jacks, ect ect ect, you get the idea = 8k loaded

Boat - 17' SC alumicraft with 12 gals fuel 2 batteries and fishing equip - 1800-2k lbs

all for a grand total of around 18k!!!! again good luck with that hemi!

 

SLE, take a deeeeep breath. NOBODY is debating that a hemi or a Titan will out work or out tow a V10. The only thing being said (I think) is a V10 cannot make up a 2000# weight difference in a drag race.

Go to the V10 forum and you have guys beating RX-8's through the twisties in their 4wd V10's........I refuse to debate such fantasy.

 

As far as the torque difference it's all in effective gearing. HP does not change with gearing but your effective torque will. The 6.0psd rated at 570ftlbs of torque is only avalble with a 3.73 rear end (the duellys may get 4.10s, not sure correct me if I'm wrong) The V10s get an option of 3.73s, 4.10s or 4.30s although they eliminated the 3.73s with the new 3V V10 so now its 4.10s or 4.30s. so if you do the math 4.30s will effectivy put 1.15 times more torque to the ground. 1.15 times RWTQ - So lets just say both engines lose 100ftlbs from to the rear wheels for the ease of this - so 1.15 time 360ftlbs (460-100) equals 415lbs - the 6.0 with 570-100 is 470lbs saying 1:1 with the 3.73 Rear end. so 415/470 = 0.88 so * 100 equals 8.8% difference in effective torque. I used all round numbers and tryed to simplify it for the ease of understanding but when actualy figured for exact values its a bit closer to 10%.

 

Didn't say anything about beating rx 8s through the twisties so please don't blow this out of proportion. the weight factor was to the comment earlier that at 4500 rpm the v10 isn't going anywhere.

 

Actually DOHC summed up my position quite nicely - no hard feelings there SLE, I still have to at least see for myself what differences the 3 valve V10 makes on the road compared to it's predecessors before I can imagine it actually dusting a Hemi Ram or Nissan Titan. What looks to be a great improvement on paper sometimes turns out to be utterly unnoticable on the road.

 

Correct, Looking at the Ford brochure and the SRW is shown with only 3.73's

Remarkably, while your math is wrong, the end result is a 12% difference.

1548 pounds of torque vs 1753 pounds is .88 which is 88%. (assuming your 100#'s of torque drive line loss.)


My point of the RX-8 story was there are a lot of wild tales there......especially concerning drag races and road racing.

 

well boys this has been fun but 5:30 will come much to early so I'll have to continue when I find time, probably after the weekend as once agian the V10 will be headed to the lake tomarrow night through monday.

Sinster73, for the fun of things, IF you can find a V10 to test drive go for it, I think most would be quite impressed with the new version, they are kinda hard to find. I drove the first one in town after hearing all the hype and I was quite impressed although as I said earlier it had deeper gearing, smaller tires, a 5 speed trans and a motor with mor HP and TQ which all combined for an impressive improvement over what I currently have. I cann't debate this Hemi thing any more as to each there own, and to ansewer the original question from post #1, Yes, I do think the Hemi is overrated!! thats my story and I'm sticken to it.

 

I have yet to see adyno sheet on a V10 ford or a 6.0L psd shown anywhere near 600 ftlbs at the rear wheels (stock of course) much less 1548 or 1753 ftlbs, and your telling me to check my math, thats a good one. End result no matter how you cut the pie, the 4.30 rear gears put the V10 at a heck of an advatage over most trucks as far as what actually laid to the ground.