The engine that failed
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
Thanks once again, pmuller. Your expertise is worth its' weight in gold.
I've decided to pull apart my block. When I checked the mains, there were (plastigauge) at service limits for a standard crank. I'm away from home and don't have my notes or tolerances here, but I've ordered a set of main bearings .001" undersize. When I get home I'll pull a main cap and plastigauge it again, and go from there. I'd rather do the extra work now than possibly suffer low oil psi and have it bug me for years. I don't have the cam in yet, so it shouldn't be that difficult. It's a good thing.
I've decided to pull apart my block. When I checked the mains, there were (plastigauge) at service limits for a standard crank. I'm away from home and don't have my notes or tolerances here, but I've ordered a set of main bearings .001" undersize. When I get home I'll pull a main cap and plastigauge it again, and go from there. I'd rather do the extra work now than possibly suffer low oil psi and have it bug me for years. I don't have the cam in yet, so it shouldn't be that difficult. It's a good thing.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Ouch, that frame break makes me quiver. I fear finding that crawling underneath. Great job on patching it up.
Really looking forward to you getting all that put together and seeing what you think!
As for taking my engine out, I removed the hood on my most recent removal / install since it was going to be in the garage for a few weeks, working on the Sniper install, in and out with hoses, wiring, etc and just wanted it out of the way.
But yes, I've taken it out with the hood on. The top of the lift scrapes the tip of the hood and the bottom of the engine scrapes the radiator support. It fits, but the tolerances are tight. But.... fitting is fitting!
Really looking forward to you getting all that put together and seeing what you think!
As for taking my engine out, I removed the hood on my most recent removal / install since it was going to be in the garage for a few weeks, working on the Sniper install, in and out with hoses, wiring, etc and just wanted it out of the way.
But yes, I've taken it out with the hood on. The top of the lift scrapes the tip of the hood and the bottom of the engine scrapes the radiator support. It fits, but the tolerances are tight. But.... fitting is fitting!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
I'm sorry to deviate from the engine work, but others who are doing an engine swap may find a crack as well
With the bolt tubes in.
Engine side:
I welded in a brace.
Attachment 278840
Then I installed this plate with bolt tubes. I had to heat and bend the plate in several places. I was happy to have a set of gas welding tanks to heat the plate and bend it.
Attachment 278842
but it is a lot easier to begin with a piece of paper to create a template, and then trace it to the metal plate first.
Attachment 284172
Below you can see one of the pieces I had to bend. It sits at 45* angle to the plate on the frame.
Attachment 278842
With the bolt tubes in.
Engine side:
I welded in a brace.
Attachment 278840
Then I installed this plate with bolt tubes. I had to heat and bend the plate in several places. I was happy to have a set of gas welding tanks to heat the plate and bend it.
Attachment 278842
but it is a lot easier to begin with a piece of paper to create a template, and then trace it to the metal plate first.
Attachment 284172
Below you can see one of the pieces I had to bend. It sits at 45* angle to the plate on the frame.
Attachment 278842
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
Finished the frame work.
Attachment 278844
Now I can get to the pedal assembly and engine/trans swap. Whew.
Attachment 278844
Now I can get to the pedal assembly and engine/trans swap. Whew.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
I got back to the engine building. I checked the mains and they were indeed at the service limit. That wouldn't do. Had I known when I was building it and first checked the tolerances that there Sealed Power made bearings .001" under, which means a tiny bit more meat on the surface that touches the crank, I would not have completed the build. But I didn't know at the time. Then I found the undersize bearings and broke down the engine today and installed the new bearings. Now I am right at .001" clearance on the mains. The rods were good.
Cam question: Has anyone seen a partial groove like this?
2nd cam question: The surface of the lobes are not polished as the journals. They were polished on my Isky cam. Is that normal?
Cam question: Has anyone seen a partial groove like this?
2nd cam question: The surface of the lobes are not polished as the journals. They were polished on my Isky cam. Is that normal?
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,289
Likes: 47
From: South central, Minnesota
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
Btw, it likes as though Cloyes is no longer making the three position gears for the 300. I can't find them, or instructions about install, on their site. Summit no longer sells them. We are being phased out.
I was searching for instructions, and all I found was for a v8 with a chain. So I searched and found this photo that explains it. The crank gear offers three choices, advanced, straight up factory, or retarded. The bottom of each keyway is shaped differently, square, pointed, or rounded. Choose your cam timing choice, install the gear using that keyway, then line up the icon, pointed, rounded, square on the perimeter of the crank gear with the timing mark on the cam gear, and away you go.
I was searching for instructions, and all I found was for a v8 with a chain. So I searched and found this photo that explains it. The crank gear offers three choices, advanced, straight up factory, or retarded. The bottom of each keyway is shaped differently, square, pointed, or rounded. Choose your cam timing choice, install the gear using that keyway, then line up the icon, pointed, rounded, square on the perimeter of the crank gear with the timing mark on the cam gear, and away you go.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
After the metal fab work, slivers of metal in my hands (even when wearing gloves) I woke up with my finger throbbing and swollen to the size of a bratwurst.
Be careful when installing the spacer ring on the end of the cam shaft. I can only sit one way to create space between the t.gear and the block.
Guys, do I soak the lifters overnight in oil?
I'm going to strip paint from the oil pan and spray it and the t.cover with clear, and install them like that. Might be ugly. Don't know.
Be careful when installing the spacer ring on the end of the cam shaft. I can only sit one way to create space between the t.gear and the block.
Guys, do I soak the lifters overnight in oil?
I'm going to strip paint from the oil pan and spray it and the t.cover with clear, and install them like that. Might be ugly. Don't know.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
I've decided that I will never be confident about this block. Now, with the misaligned cam journals, I can't move forward with a block that may or may not lose oil psi as it did once before. Today I am switching to another block that I know is good. I'm going to put the questionable block out for the junkman. Pity.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
That's probably for the best. Why chance it? Do it right, and this should be the last engine you should have to build for a good long time.
I had to scrap my first block. It was worn out past the point where it boring it 60 over still wouldn't clean it up. (How many miles were on that engine??) I could have had it reworked and re-sleeved, etc. but there are other blocks out there.
As for soaking the lifters in oil, I've read a bit about this and the general consensus was "no". It doesn't really do anything. First off, lifters aren't porous, so they don't really absorb oil. They also, anymore, come pre-filled with oil. At least, enough to fire it up on.
I had to scrap my first block. It was worn out past the point where it boring it 60 over still wouldn't clean it up. (How many miles were on that engine??) I could have had it reworked and re-sleeved, etc. but there are other blocks out there.
As for soaking the lifters in oil, I've read a bit about this and the general consensus was "no". It doesn't really do anything. First off, lifters aren't porous, so they don't really absorb oil. They also, anymore, come pre-filled with oil. At least, enough to fire it up on.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,172
Likes: 376
From: Near Los Angeles
It seems I can't catch a break with a 300. I prepped the second block and swapped the main bearings and crank over. With the first block I had .001 oil clearance on the mains. With this block I measure larger than the .0015 limit that the book says. Ouch. Now I'm at a stand still. It seems the only option would be to have the crank turned and use appropriate bearings. No thanks.